dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 03:58 PM |
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Which Starter Motor (CVH + Type9 mesh issues)
Having problems with my start motor.
Since ive had the car its been a bit hit and miss, only engauging sucessfully about every other time, and if it doesn work, taking 2-3 blips till it
engauges.
- Right at the start i would rock it if it didnt engauge but then found the rocking often didnt make it work anyway. So just resorted to dabing the
start button untill it engauged.
Then the solenoid came loose and i re attached it and removed an rebolted the starter. I also replaced the missing bolt so it was held by the full
three not just two.
After that it engauged nearly 100% of the time but sounds like the mesh is far to tight, a lot of gear noise between the two.
1600 cvh, alumium belhousing, std type9 box.
This is the info off the starter
Is this the right starter for a CVH mated to a Type9?
Are there any flywheel/bellhousing/clutch variations that might effect it?
Also included some photos of the flywheel.
- Marked 200S in white/yellow and S2 RST in red on opersite sides. Might mean something to somone hopfully.
My gutt feeling is that when it works well it works too well for anything to be catastofically wrong, but yet given there is basical no adjustment at
all, whats wrong to make it not work faultlessly i dont know.
The whole start motor came loose a week ago, and before i actaully noticed it was loose it was back to its old trick of only engauging somtimes not
always, but sounded much better while it was engauged. So it does sound a but tight, and maybe thats sublty of diffrence betwen diffrent startmotor
models? Not conviced, but i dont know what the options are.
Daniel
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dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 04:01 PM |
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I guess although the started fits onto the bellhousing and the engine is a cvh, the flywheel with which the starter meshs could be off anything
almost?
The teeth/gears for now look ok. But im keen to sort it sooner rather than later to prevent wear (not using car much atm) as as far as i know it used
to work fine so im assuming its the right starter. Will get a part no off it if i can.
Currently working on a bit of a final push to get the car sorted for a trackday on satuday.
Its also just recently developed a fault where it wont work at all, relay from the start button under the dash clicks, and the voltmeter comes down a
fair bit (ie, not a small load, but not the fully motor load either) but no noise from the solenoid or starter motor.
- No other symtoms, repeated tries often dont revieal anything, no loose wires, then given enough trys and wiggles it starts working again. Very odd.
Seams like a loose contection maybe inside the soleniod or before it, but odd to see load on the voltmeter.
Thats clearly nothing to do with the mesh issue, but does mean im planning to proberbly replace the unit, inwhich case clearly it might as well be the
right one!
- Local parts place wants about £55+vat for a new start and soleniode pair in exchange for the old, which assuming its a decent quality part and i
get the right model sounds a good route out.
Daniel
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ashg
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 04:47 PM |
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file out the holes in the starter motor a little bit. that should allow you move it a little bit further away.
another thing to check. is your gearbox properly aligned to the engine? could it be possible that some of the alignment dowels are bent?
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 04:49 PM |
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As to the original (mechanical) issue, could you not file the bolt holes slightly on the starter to adjust the mesh?? Don't go to far or you
will strip the starter/flywheel teeth 
Cheers
Dan
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dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 06:53 PM |
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I guess i could start filling out holes, maybe thats the best route. Although does it not have a positive alignment on the flange around the spigot
support?
- Intesteding suggestion about checking the engine/belhousing alinement. As you say that would throw it out for sure.
Daniel
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johnston
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 06:56 PM |
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Have you the metal plate between the engine and the box I've heard that few mm can make a difference.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 07:14 PM |
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By any chance is the CVH from a FWD car -- FWD CVH used a different starter with finner teeth on the drive gear
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 07:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
By any chance is the CVH from a FWD car -- FWD CVH used a different starter with finner teeth on the drive gear
Might be the case, since the flywheel is marked S2RST, or Series 2 RS Turbo (which was a FWD CVH turbo)
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dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnston
Have you the metal plate between the engine and the box I've heard that few mm can make a difference.
It does indeed have a sheet of
alu between them, which i estimate its around 1.5mm prehaps?
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
By any chance is the CVH from a FWD car -- FWD CVH used a different starter with finner teeth on the drive gear
That sir, is a bloody
brilliant peice of information.
- This engine did indeed come out of a feista, and if it retained its flywheel (but not starter motor) when swaped for the engine the car had
origanally that could well be it indeed.
Thinking about it, the flywheel does look a little fine for the pinion gear. And prehaps that would explan just about everything. Except the slightly
dicky solenoid which is proberbly just becuase its got to hot by the exhaust again.
So, i need a diffrent starter motor! With the correct pitch pinon gear but the same fittings.
Daniel
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dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 09:10 PM |
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Photos of flywheel.
- More i look at it the more the mesh looks all wrong.
http://img43.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dscn9229tb.jpg
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yellow melos
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 09:31 PM |
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You need a starter motor from a ford sierra 1.8 ( which is a cvh engine ). also will need the flywheel and clutch plates
the 1.6 fly wheel is different to the FWD cars... i don't think the start is the standard pinto starter either.
you will also need a spacer plate between the starter and the bellhousing.
Should really have the one whole one between the engine and box but you can get away with not having it.
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dhutch
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| posted on 17/11/09 at 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by yellow melos
You need a starter motor from a ford sierra 1.8 , which is a cvh engine , also will need the flywheel and clutch plates
Yes, well clearly that would work.
- However a flywheel change being an engine out job, is somthing i would ideal avoid if possable. Certainly not fesable before this weekend!!
Presably is relativly safe to say they starter from the FWD cars will not fit onto the type9 belhousing?
Is there or would there by any other starters that would have the correct finer pitch to suit the FWD flywheel that mght might mount onto the type9
bellhousing?
Might there be any millage at all in trying to take the pinion off a fwd start and fitting it onto mine.
Daniel
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 20/11/09 at 07:32 PM |
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FWD flywheel = Sierra CVH/DOHC starter
The only flywheel i know of that matches the Pinto starter motor is from either a Morgan 4/4, early Westfield or a Scimitar SS1...guess how i know?
Long live RWD...
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dhutch
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 04:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ss1turbo
FWD flywheel = Sierra CVH/DOHC starter
So will will that match my flywheel and bell housing?
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 22/11/09 at 05:52 PM |
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The difference between FWD and RWD starter motors is the throw of the pinion; if yours is a little lazy anyway that won't help.
That looks to be an RS2000 bellhousing, in which case thats been used many times on here, and the normal combo (FWD flywheel and Sierra CVH/DOHC
starter) works fine (or rather i've heard of no problems).
By the looks of the teeth on the pinion gear, it's either not been engaging or (more likely) not been releasing proerly which points to a sticky
starter anyway.
Long live RWD...
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