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Author: Subject: mini - round nose to clubman query
r1_manx

posted on 12/1/10 at 11:28 AM Reply With Quote
mini - round nose to clubman query

Hi,

I'm at the stage of my R1 mini build where the bodywork is being looked at, and with everything now installed in the engine bay, I have found that my classic mini cooper, round nose front end, is a very tight fit and doesn't leave much clearance at all at the front of the engine bay. I have considered fitting a removable 'mini clubman' style front end instead, as these give a lot more clearance, and I wouldn't be too bothered about changing the look of the mini. However, my question is, my mini is registered as a 'Mini Cooper' ie. round nose front end. If I fitted a Clubman style flip front, would I need to have the car re-registered/re-tested to then become a Clubman? The rest of the chassis would still be the original Mini Cooper, but with a Clubman front end. I'm not bothered about changing the look of the mini with regard to affecting it's re-sale value, as i'm never going to sell it (pride and joy since 16), it's just the issue of insurance and registration I want to be clear on before forking out for a new flip front. If anyone can give me some advice on this I would appreciate it.

Cheers





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blakep82

posted on 12/1/10 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
well, its going to have an R1 engine, so it still wouldn't be a cooper.
i don't know the answer, but its not a standard car anyway, so there'd be plenty of other issues to confuse it all





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r1_manx

posted on 12/1/10 at 11:50 AM Reply With Quote
I know, but the chassis is still a Cooper it's just an engine change, and Z cars mini's are still listed as Mini Cooper or Mini when they're sold, and they retain they're age related plates, so they don't seem to be re-registered as a 2010 'Mini Cooper-R1 hybrid beast' (or something to that effect). I wonder how Z cars and the like get round the issue. Will do some more digging.





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rusty nuts

posted on 12/1/10 at 12:28 PM Reply With Quote
IIRC there was a Mini at Stoneleigh for the last few years with a Honda car lump that has had the original front extended? Someone took a fair bit of trouble to get it looking right . Don't forget if you do go the flip front route you will need to brace the subframe etc
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Davey D

posted on 12/1/10 at 01:00 PM Reply With Quote
you dont have to re-register/get its name changed.

just think of all those modified cars with body kits / different lights fitted etc etc. there is no need to re register those, and that is all you are doing.

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r1_manx

posted on 12/1/10 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
Yeah I have got the brace bars fitted that are required for a flip front. I have beefed up the front cross member and will also strengthen the subframe where possible. The extended front ends come as 90mm+ on standard and they look funny and upset the balance I think. I only need about 25mm extra at the front to be happy, but finding someone who can have a go at extending my front end is the challenge, i'm not skilled on the bodywork side of things.





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r1_manx

posted on 12/1/10 at 01:06 PM Reply With Quote
'Davey D' - that's what I initially thought, some people put outrageous bodykits on cars and they end up looking nothing like the standard silhouette. As long as I declare the flip front to the insurance company (with photos no doubt) then I don't see what the problem would be in having a different style front end.





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Andybarbet

posted on 12/1/10 at 01:50 PM Reply With Quote
A friend has just fitted a round nose fibreglass front that is 100mm longer than standard if that helps, it helped him fit a K series lump in
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mcerd1

posted on 12/1/10 at 02:34 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by r1_manx
...and Z cars mini's are still listed as Mini Cooper or Mini when they're sold, and they retain they're age related plates...

I don't know how they get away with that after they've chopped a huge hole in the back of the chassis !

but since you hav'nt changed the chassis - I don't think you'll have any issues, even if you did want it renamed on the V5


here's what the DVLA are saying:
quote:
Registering a radically altered vehicle
The registration of radically altered vehicles covers vehicles which are substantially altered from their original specification, but which are not kit conversions. In these cases the vehicle components used from the original vehicle will be given a numerical value in order to retain the original registration mark.
Allocating a vehicle registration mark
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark. If less than eight points are scored or a second-hand or modified chassis or altered monocoque bodyshell is used an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA), enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA), single vehicle approval (SVA) or motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) certificate will be required to register the vehicle. A 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.
Scoring components
The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point
Where there is evidence that two vehicles have been welded together to form one (ie 'cut and shut' a 'Q' mark will be allocated, IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA will be required.



quote:
Registering a rebuilt vehicle, kit car and kit conversion If you are rebuilding a vehicle, or building a vehicle from a kit or kit conversion, it will need to meet certain criteria before the vehicle can be registered. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) local office will assign the original or an appropriate registration mark on the evidence provided.
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts
In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used a car must pass an Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) and light goods vans must have a enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

Kit Cars
Where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.

Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.



[Edited on 12/1/10 by mcerd1]





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Humbug

posted on 12/1/10 at 05:38 PM Reply With Quote
I think that basically Z cars don't follow the rules - changes to a chassis such as those needed to make a Mini rear-engined RWD definitely require IVA IMHO. I am happy to be proved wrong if Z cars do IVA their conversions.
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Humbug

posted on 12/1/10 at 05:39 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andybarbet
A friend has just fitted a round nose fibreglass front that is 100mm longer than standard if that helps, it helped him fit a K series lump in


Andy - did your friend make a special subframe or buy it?

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Andybarbet

posted on 12/1/10 at 07:45 PM Reply With Quote
He bought it but he did have to weld his own mounts on but that may have been his choice, let me know if you want to know where he got the subframe and longer front from.
The longer frontis very nice and you only really notice it when its next to a proper length mini.

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r1_manx

posted on 13/1/10 at 11:01 AM Reply With Quote
These guys do a K series conversion kit and a VTEC one if you're interested:

http://www.watsonsrally.co.uk/services.htm

I've read on some of the mini forums that the conversions are pretty good, especially the VTEC as there is plenty of room to gain more power (throttle body upgrade).

*With my mini, it's not a Z car style build, but a FWD, so I have retained all of the standard mini suspension points and hubs, and driveshafts. My engine frame for the R1 motor is built into the original mini subframe, so I retain a lot of the standard mini parts. On the flip front, I might go for a clubman front end, as it will give me the required clearance.





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