tigertom
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 09:44 AM |
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xe vs zetec vs duratec
need to make a choice of what engine to swap to.have posted here before about duratec's and still feel they are a bit expensive and take a lot
of work to bring the costs down(time i dont have).pound for pound wot gives you the most power and ease of install.at the moment the pros and cons are
zetec-relatively easy install as its been done many times before but not much above 150bhp.xe gives better bhp but heavier and older engine and not
quite as popular.want to start gatherin stuff up and keep things as simple as possible.only want to change engine if there is going to be a worth
while power difference.115bhp at the moment to 150bhp isnt a big enough difference to justify my hard earned money effort.
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FFTS
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 09:55 AM |
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BEC!!! 
Chris.
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whitestu
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 09:57 AM |
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You could do a Zetec ST170 for not too much money.
The great thing about Zetecs is they are so cheap. My low mileage 2.0 Blacktop cost £55.
As you have a pinto you could reuse your manifold on a Duratec though.
Stu
Stu
[Edited on 2/3/10 by whitestu]
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coozer
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:13 AM |
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Look hard and you can have a zetec for free... just to back that up heres some prices I paid...
2L Mondeo 99p - Ebay
1.8 Mondeo £10 - LCB
1.8 Mondeo free - LCB
my local salvage yard wanted £200 for 'everything' under the bonnet of a Mondeo when I asked.
But I have a ST170 engine installed (£350 after selling some ancilleries) that gave me 166bhp with bike carbs. That may seem low but there was
157lb-ft of torque and this was running real weak with the carbs previuosly set up for my 1.8.
However, have a look on the Focus ST170 forum and you'll see the standard car can have as little as 145bhp, and owners spend money on panel
filters, induction kits, decats etc and vernier pulleys to get them up to the 170.
Just my preference you see
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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dlatch
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:18 AM |
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As you have a pinto fitted all ready i would if i twas me go for the duratec option
yes the engine will cost more but at least the exhuast and inlet are the same sides as the pinto its replacing, plus it is very tuneable and much
lighter than either the XE or zetec.
if money is the real problem why not just keep running the pinto until you have the funds to do the swap
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iank
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:20 AM |
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Ease of install and cheapest has to go to Zetec simply due to the way it bolts right up to the gearbox without a bellhousing. Other than that the
costs are similar between XE and Zetec.
XE has the potential to make 200bhp slightly more cheaply and easily than a Zetec but there's not a lot in it.
But don't dismiss the difference between 115bhp and 150bhp, in a 500kg car that's a 70bhp/tonne improvement (compared to the 30bhp/tonne
improvement you'd get doing the conversion in a tin top)
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:28 AM |
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As much as I like the XE, realistically unless you already have one in good condition it's not going to work out significantly cheaper than a
Duratec.
However, if you want a significant power upgrade from your Pinto then I doubt the Zetec will cut it in standard form, and tuning them quickly gets
expensive so one of the above would be a better starting point.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
XE has the potential to make 200bhp slightly more cheaply and easily than a Zetec but there's not a lot in it.
At the 200bhp level there is quite a lot in it. You are looking at cams and some head work to get that from a Zetec.
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ashg
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:29 AM |
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if you want to go really fast dont worry about what engine you have just make sure it has a big dirty turbo and 9inch rear wheels
being serious though pinto to 150-160bhp zetec on bike carbs is quite a big power jump in these little cars.
the key to having a fast car is to fit the engine then have it properly tuned at a good rolling road. if you haven't already i would suggest
you take your current setup to be tuned as you will be surprised how much improvement a proper tune will make.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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iank
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by iank
XE has the potential to make 200bhp slightly more cheaply and easily than a Zetec but there's not a lot in it.
At the 200bhp level there is quite a lot in it. You are looking at cams and some head work to get that from a Zetec.
Fair point, I was thinking it was just cams (along with the bike carbs/throttle bodies etc you'd need for both). But good head mods can indeed
cost a lot.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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omega0684
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:54 AM |
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and why isn't a pinto on the cards? 
I love Pinto's, even if i did get mine from P&O!
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twybrow
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 11:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
and why isn't a pinto on the cards?
Because he has more sense than to spend silly money on 40 year old technology!
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tigertom
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 11:25 AM |
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i think tuning the pinto even further is wasted money and making the engine fragile.would rather get 160ish bhp from a std engine under no stress.the
st170 was it hard to put in.want to make it easy as possible.was it hard using carbs and getting rid of injection system.do u still need a managment
system,as in megasquirt?does it give any more power than a black top.how does mot emissions go with a fresher engine.do they test accordingly?
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mcerd1
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 01:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tigertom
i think tuning the pinto even further is wasted money and making the engine fragile.
thats the first time I've heard a pinto called fragile
I'd vote for saving up for a duratec if you realy want to change - but what spec is your pinto at the moment ?
-
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fatbaldbloke
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 01:51 PM |
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A standard 2 litre Zetec with throttle bodies and a decent exhaust will put out 165-175 bhp, which will be a noticeable jump from where you are now.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 01:58 PM |
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XEs are significantly cheaper to fit than Duratecs, can be upgraded to give similar power with comparatively cheaper parts but at the expense of
having a cast block.
Zetecs are cheap DOHC alternatives to the pinto but are nothing special. Quite easy to fit in place of a pinto though.
Craig
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evo.rocks
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 03:51 PM |
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BEC U FOOL!! lol
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TimC
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 04:33 PM |
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What about a 4age? I've been a passenger in a couple of 4age Strikers and they were superb units - I see one on eBay with 69000miles for about
£200.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 06:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
XEs are significantly cheaper to fit than Duratecs
Can't be much in it surely? The only major difference I can think of is the larger Duratecs have a dual mass flywheel, but there are non dual
mass flywheels used on some engine variants as flak monkey found.
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dlatch
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 06:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
XEs are significantly cheaper to fit than Duratecs
Can't be much in it surely? The only major difference I can think of is the larger Duratecs have a dual mass flywheel, but there are non dual
mass flywheels used on some engine variants as flak monkey found.
ST150 engine i think is the one without the dual mass flywheel, i seem to remember seeing one for sale on ebay for £700 and it had only 15,000 miles
as i run a zetec i would like to see what is possible costwise regarding to tuning them further from just a set of TB's from what i have read
cam change and headwork + arp rod bolts gets you 200bhp ish so the only difference between that and a XE would be the extra cost of head work? which
as a XE is a much older engine most examples would need a freshen up at the very least, the XE is still a great engine though (owned a mk2 gte 16V) my
old one made 180bhp with cams and chip in the astra with TB i would have expected further gains taking it over 200bhp but at that time TB conversions
were horribly expensive
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 06:24 PM |
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i was going to fit a duratec before going XE, theres a 2-3 hundred quid in it, which is a lot of money for me
Craig
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franky
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 06:41 PM |
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what about using a none ford RWD lump instead?
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dlatch
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 07:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by franky
what about using a none ford RWD lump instead?
franky
bmw M3 engines is just being greedy
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gordon h
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 07:26 PM |
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how about saab, i brought 2.3 turbo £250 225 bhp 280 lb torq 2.5 omega gearbox £100 cheap power
bec is best but going to try sabb 2.3 turbo mk
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/3/10 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
i was going to fit a duratec before going XE, theres a 2-3 hundred quid in it, which is a lot of money for me
In the engine itself or in adapting it for RWD? (which is what I was alluding to!)
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