plentywahalla
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 08:52 PM |
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IVA dodge? ... or just dodgy!!
I was comparing notes with a guy I know who is building a GT40 replica.
He reckons he has a dodge to avoid submitting his car for the IVA assessment.
He has bought an old Dutton based on Escort running gear which came complete with an age related plate (late 60's so good for a GT40) and V5
which described the car as a 'Ford Sports Car'
He plans to use the plates, copy the chassis number across, submit a variation for the change of engine, get an MOT and then put it on the road.
Is he likely to get away with it? It seems to simple a scheme not to be caught out somehow.
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 08:53 PM |
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ha ha ha no
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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flibble
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 08:58 PM |
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He probably will get away with it, over at the DOC many ringers have been reported over the years with little or nothing being done about it by the
DVLA, police or otherwise.
Should he do it? NO, it's just plain ringing, and wrong!
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:01 PM |
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Yeah he'll most likely get away with it. I know myself of a few people that have done that on this site.
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RichardK
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:06 PM |
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As above, he will get away with it but it's wrong, the IVA is there for a reason to ensure vehicles are safe. If he has a bump and the vehicle
is deemed unsafe then things will go wrong for him very quickly like void insurance and prosecution etc especially if people get hurt or worse.
Not worth it in my view, I want to know my amateur built vehicle is safe cos I'm not a pro!
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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deanwelch
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:09 PM |
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yes he will get "away with it"..........but do you want to get "away with it" or do it the right way with a clear conscience
and what happens if he needs to claim on his insurance for a car he has just built but gets paid for an old one.........just my
opinion..................
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jacko
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:14 PM |
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One ward RINGER
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iank
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:15 PM |
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If he goes to an MOT with a tester that knows the difference between a Dutton and a GT40 (or a friendly constable types the number into his computer
'cos it's doing 37mph in a 30 zone) it'll end up in the crusher and he'll have some fun explaining to the police about his
ringing. Not worth the risk if it's just about the £500 on a car that will cost £10k's
Easier to get away with from one 7 to another but the result is the same if caught. And people have been.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=48827
Makes the car risky to sell as it just takes one prospective purchaser (presumably someone who knows a bit about kits) to let on to the
authorities.
Even worse if he doens't get rid of the dutton very thoroughly. See http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=131814
[Edited on 18/3/10 by iank]
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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plentywahalla
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:21 PM |
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Most 'ringers' get away with it because the ringed car is usually identical to the genuine one. So provided the genuine one is destroyed
its is virtually impossible to uncover the fraud.
In this case the cars are totally different, the engine is not even in the same place!
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blakep82
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:24 PM |
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hmm, there won't be any photos of the original car anywhere, and if the log book just says ford sports car, its going to be difficult to prove
the car ever was anything else before
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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tomprescott
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 09:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
hmm, there won't be any photos of the original car anywhere, and if the log book just says ford sports car, its going to be difficult to prove
the car ever was anything else before
Thats exactly what I was thinking, if its registered as ford sports car then will probably never get caught.
A bird in the hand....
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big_wasa
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tomprescott
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
hmm, there won't be any photos of the original car anywhere, and if the log book just says ford sports car, its going to be difficult to prove
the car ever was anything else before
Thats exactly what I was thinking, if its registered as ford sports car then will probably never get caught.
Untill he trys to sell the dutton minus Id and some one clever sends of for it ?
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owelly
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 10:27 PM |
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It's very very simple. I have accumulated rather a lot of experience on this matter over the past few years!
If anyone flags up the GT40 as a 'Ford Sports car' or whatever, and it clearly isn't, then the BiB can ask DVLA to inspect the car
and change the V5 to suit the car. If the folks at DVLA dig around they can easily trace any previous owners to verify what the car was. If the car
wearing the wrong ID is identified as something it isn't, then it can be impounded and destroyed.
I have witnessed the DVLA in action and if the right person gets involved, then they will find out what the picture is. In my most recent case, the
nice lady at Stockton DVLA contacted all of the previous owners, tracked-down show pictures of the car and event dug-up a Kit Car mag which featured
the car! A MK does not look like a Magenta.......a Dutton looks even less like a GT40.
I see it every week on Ebay. Crappy Q-plated kits selling for way over the vehicle value and then turning-up a few weeks later with no ID. And there
are dozens of kits on Ebay whose VRM isn't telling the same story as the listing.
Your GT40 mate is welcome to try his magnificent plan and he may get away with it. Or he may end up loosing the car, loosing his pennies, get sent to
the slammer for Leroy to snuggle up behind him and getting a criminal record......
Wish him luck from me! 
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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scootz
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| posted on 18/3/10 at 10:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
If the folks at DVLA dig around they can easily trace any previous owners to verify what the car was.
Exactly! It's not rocket-science... !!!
Tell him to wise-up and just do it right.
PS - It wasn't that white GT40 kit that was floating about on eBay for the last few weeks at £5k or Best Offer???
It's Evolution Baby!
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zilspeed
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 12:07 AM |
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Like Owelly said.
the DVLA have lots of records and will gladly do lots of digging.
It may just say 'Ford Sports' on the logbook, but somewhere down in Swansea, in a file, or on a microfiche are the original documents from
when it changed form a Ford Escort to a Ford Sports. My DVLA guy was a car nut. It happens.
Not a clever idea to presume they're all clueless bureaucrats.
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BenB
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 08:23 AM |
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It will probably work for a while and it might even work for the life of the car. But the potential ramifications of doing it (unsafe car, crushed if
discovered etc) are not small..... If he ever wanted to sell it on he might have a problem as "Ford Sports Car" is the generic V5
description that gets seized upon by people looking for a clone so anyone with a bit of common sense will run a mile if they see a finished car with
that on the V5.... Might be able to flog it on Ebay but not at a good price (should the need arise).
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StevieB
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 08:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
It's very very simple. I have accumulated rather a lot of experience on this matter over the past few years!
If anyone flags up the GT40 as a 'Ford Sports car' or whatever, and it clearly isn't, then the BiB can ask DVLA to inspect the car
and change the V5 to suit the car. If the folks at DVLA dig around they can easily trace any previous owners to verify what the car was. If the car
wearing the wrong ID is identified as something it isn't, then it can be impounded and destroyed.
I have witnessed the DVLA in action and if the right person gets involved, then they will find out what the picture is. In my most recent case, the
nice lady at Stockton DVLA contacted all of the previous owners, tracked-down show pictures of the car and event dug-up a Kit Car mag which featured
the car! A MK does not look like a Magenta.......a Dutton looks even less like a GT40.
I see it every week on Ebay. Crappy Q-plated kits selling for way over the vehicle value and then turning-up a few weeks later with no ID. And there
are dozens of kits on Ebay whose VRM isn't telling the same story as the listing.
Your GT40 mate is welcome to try his magnificent plan and he may get away with it. Or he may end up loosing the car, loosing his pennies, get sent to
the slammer for Leroy to snuggle up behind him and getting a criminal record......
Wish him luck from me!
Can I refer a certain MJ to you every time he comes up with certain ideas?
One thing I;ve often wondered is where the line is drawn on replacement like for like chassis - I've occassionally come acros a Wetsfield that
is in a completely dilapidated state. I'd had the idea of buying it and a Westy starte kit (of exactly the same type, ie SE or SEi etc.) and
replacing the old rusty chassis and bodywork but tansferring across all of the running gear etc.
Would that be ringing or would it be restoring?
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trogdor
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 08:57 AM |
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If its a brand new chassis from the manufacturer its restoring.
But I am not sure how applicable that is for kit cars!
I know that you can reshell an MGB with a brand new heritage shell and it doesn't need a BIVA or loose any points etc.
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 09:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
One thing I;ve often wondered is where the line is drawn on replacement like for like chassis - I've occassionally come acros a Wetsfield that
is in a completely dilapidated state. I'd had the idea of buying it and a Westy starte kit (of exactly the same type, ie SE or SEi etc.) and
replacing the old rusty chassis and bodywork but tansferring across all of the running gear etc.
Would that be ringing or would it be restoring?
The rules on radically altered vehicles quite clearly say that a new identical chassis is fine.
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owelly
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 10:40 AM |
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I'll also add, a few years ago (about 20 come to think of it!) DVLA contacted me about a V5 I was applying for. It was for a Magenta (no
suprises there) but the V5 stated it was an "Austin (MG) Sports". The Magenta had been built from an MG1300. As was the norm in those
days, the V5 was amended the car got an MOT and off you went. DVLA wanted to know why the cars details had been changed IN 1983 from AustinMG 1300 to
what it was now. I explained and they asked for piccies. I obliged and they sent me a new V5 with an age related plate but for the date the car was
built, not the original donor which was a 1966 IIRC. The folks in the DVLA said they were embarking on a clamp-down on such V5s.........
More recently, the nice lady I was dealing with at DVLA said that they were also looking for a solution to ringing but the project had been put on the
back-burner for now because they were funding a new puter system. But they'll be back on it after they've got more revenue from SORN
fines. ..........
SO BE WARNED although it may take another 20 years.
SteveB, Mr J knows the scores and he's always been a bit of a chancer. I'm sure he'll be able to talk his way out of whatever the
law can throw at him. Lets face it, he's talked his way into a grown-ups job......
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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iank
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 11:33 AM |
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Interesting, I can see how it would be easy and relatively cheap to prevent ringing of new cars (both tin-tops and kits), but preventing ringing
between cars that are already on the road is going to be more of a challenge.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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owelly
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 11:40 AM |
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One solution would be to add a picture to the MOT system. The MOT guy would have the responsibilty to flag-up any anomalies. A google search of just
about any car will bring up a piccy of what it should look like. It all depends on if the DVLA can be arsed to do anything.....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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iank
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 12:33 PM |
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Yes that would help for kits, but not much good for tin tops where 99.9% of ringing happens.
I was thinking they might start requiring chassis numbers that use self destructing security labels only available from the DVLA rather than allowing
number stamps anyone can buy at MM.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Ivan
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| posted on 19/3/10 at 04:43 PM |
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I see a lot of comments in this thread about IVA confirming that the kit car is well built and safe - I think you are fooling yourself if you think
that a test as superficial as the IVA is would pick up any serious safety issues such as welds with bad penetration, improperly made wishbones, bad
quality spares used in safety critical areas, improper bolt selection etc.
What the tests will sort out is that you can't cut or injure someone because of sharp edges, that your brakes are working OK at the moment and
that there are no visually obvious lighting or hooting issues.
To build a safe car use properly reconditioned parts, don't take shotcuts and make sure your welding is up to standard and make sure any changes
from the plan are not negative for safety and durability.
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jacko
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| posted on 26/3/10 at 04:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
One word RINGER
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