sdh2903
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:31 AM |
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CEC / BEC dilemma
At present I am currently building a GKD legend with the 1.8 M42 engine and box from a 318is.
Now all was well until i recently had an experience with a mate's BEC which used a fairly early blade engine. I just loved the rev happy nature,
the urgency and the noise when giving it a blat.
I'm now beginning to maybe wish I'd gone down the BEC route with the kit, maybe an MNR or an MK but was put off by the sierra donor
route.
Now I'm after a few views/opinions of fellow builders as to what the best route to go down would be. My options are:
1. Build the car as it is with the M42 lump (pros - ease of build, no emissions worries (pre94), inexpensive. Cons - not a BEC!, heavier.)
2. Covert the GKD to a BEC. (pros - lively, rev happy, grin factor. Lighter. Cons - expense, reverse issue, would need cat, chassis mods)
3. Sell up current project as unfinished and buy a Chassis designed for a BEC. I think this is the most impractical due unfinished kits not having a
massive value.
Now obviously i could also go down the route of building the car as a CEC and converting to BEC in the future post IVA but then i would have to have
paid for 2 exhaust systems, 2 driveshafts etc etc.
Hmm decisions decisions. Like i said any views, opinions, past experiences all welcome and gratefully received!!
Steve
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:36 AM |
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Finish and IVA the one youre buiding, then change the engine to a BEC if thats what you want.
For me, a Bike Engine is too revvy and doesnt have enough torque, and although i love riding bikes, it is nice to ride one that is quiet and relaxing
rather than revvy and exciting.
Youll find that with a revvy bike engine, youll be urged to race it all the time IMO.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Wadders
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:38 AM |
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Might be an idea to search the archives on this one, i think it's been covered once or twice 
Not that you'll find the answer mind, at the end of the day only you can decide 
Al.
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whitestu
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:39 AM |
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If you are a reasonable way down the road with the build I'd agree with MakeEverything and get it IVAd as it is.
In the scheme of things a differnet exhaust and prop aren't that expensive and the IVA is likely to be a lot easier with an oldish car
engine.
Stu
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franky
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:46 AM |
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As above, get it finished/IVA'd then make a choice....
Or fit the supercharger kit thats being worked on for a lightweight 200+bhp
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scootz
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:48 AM |
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I've had both... my stock reply is that BEC's are great fun when you're on a mission, but very tiresome if you just want to go for a
leisurely drive.
It's Evolution Baby!
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fha772
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:48 AM |
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I'd stick with what your building, and get it finished and IVA'd.
Then drive it for a bit, if after summer of driving it, your not happy with it and still want to go the BEC route, then swap the engine in the car you
have.
That, in my opinion, is the most sensible route.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=6743&start=105
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coozer
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 09:59 AM |
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I'd finish it off to a high standard then build a locost one with bike engine.
You'll soon find that a 200bhp cec is nearly there up against a bec and easier to drive too....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:01 AM |
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Thanks for all the replies!!
I think finishing it and IVA'd is definitly the more sensible option. However i dont seem to always do the sensible thing....
Not heard much more about the supercharger conversion, think its gone on the back burner although could well be an option.
Think I need a couple more runs out in a BEC over a longer distance to make up my mind I think.
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bassett
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:04 AM |
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How far along with the build are you. I think id stay on course and get the current car finished, drive it and see if its what you were originally
after. If your not happy at the end i think id sell up rather than trying to convert.
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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Guinness
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:09 AM |
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I've done 7,500 miles in my BEC. As Scootz says, it's absolutely brilliant when you are on a mission.
However, there is next to no chance of using it in civilian mode.
I'm considering changing it into a CEC this winter. But my problem is, I need a replacement power plant that is capable of the top end I
already have. Which is going to mean big bucks.
Mike
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:09 AM |
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I'm not that far into it to be honest, the engine is in and all fluid lines in etc. but i'm just at the point to start getting driveshaft,
exhaust etc sorted, hence why I'm torn which way to go.
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:17 AM |
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Get it finished and drive it
If you go bike engine, that is going to mean a reverse setup, new springs on the front, some sort of dry sump/shallow sump etc etc and a lot of cost
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:17 AM |
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finish it, sell it, then build what you should have done in the first place... Or indeed buy a ready built on the road example from the sale of
yours...
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ReMan
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 10:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
finish it, sell it, then build what you should have done in the first place... Or indeed buy a ready built on the road example from the sale of
yours...
Second that!
And get some filter put on the forum that stops this question from being re- asked time and time again with the same range of opinions
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 11:46 AM |
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I had a part built zetec, and took a ride in a blade kit and loved it - did a complete "about turn" and sold the engine kit etc and went
bec.
Your right, the engine is an absolute blast, it goes like stink, sounds amazing, and is very involving - you turn into a hooligan.
However, it is only those things on the right road, and in heavy traffic or on a straight A road it is a bit of a chore. A bit like a very comitted
sports bike. You end up ragging it and driving like a prat to try to make it fun - which isn't really a very good thing.... (well...sometimes
 )
I have an english axle so my ratio isn't great for top speed, but does make the car very driveable, clutch issues and pulling away and stalling
doesn't happen at all. So dont be put off by that side of things.
A BEC is a very focused car generally speaking, it is not a compromise type car, it wont be perfect for every circumstance, but if you are out for a
drive it is excellent.
I think a massive exhaust will make a huge difference to the car being annoying at constant speed - it is my next big purchase.
You have to make a choice about what you want the car for. If you want it for relaxed touring then a CEC fury is probably one your best choices, if it
is for balls to the wall blasts then a BEC is perfect - if it a mix of them then you need to know that you wont ever have the perfect car, for a
reasonable price and everything will be a compromise.
As far as costs go, selling my complete CEC engine package covered nearly the entire cost of the swap - or at least it covered the cost of the parts,
I ran out of steam after having kids/job change etc. and so got the engine install/electrics carried out professionally.
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 11:53 AM |
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i would have to say that my CEC is prob faster than most BEC 
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 11:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
finish it, sell it, then build what you should have done in the first place... Or indeed buy a ready built on the road example from the sale of
yours...
Second that!
And get some filter put on the forum that stops this question from being re- asked time and time again with the same range of opinions
Just dont look at the threads about them
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 12:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Thanks for all the replies!!
I think finishing it and IVA'd is definitly the more sensible option. However i dont seem to always do the sensible thing....
Not heard much more about the supercharger conversion, think its gone on the back burner although could well be an option.
Think I need a couple more runs out in a BEC over a longer distance to make up my mind I think.
My advice would be, come to the Newark show and then try and find MadTeg on the locost stand ( just do a search on here for MadTeg to see his car )
then do what ever you need to do to try and blag been driven out in his car. There are some on here who have been driven by him and are totally
convinced, there are some on here who have been out with him and think that the car is just a bit too fast and some like me who would like his set up
but ONLY if they are in control of the right hand pedal.
THEN make you mind up.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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franky
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 12:38 PM |
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Give peter a shout about the supercharger stuff, I don't think its that far away.
BEC's are great but a 200bhp CEC gives you the best of both worlds
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will121
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 12:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
I just loved the rev happy nature, the urgency and the noise when giving it a blat.
i think as been said before the appeal of bike engine is as you say, but to me a size zero super model is appealing for a weekend but wouldnt want to
marry one.
also depends on what you are planning to do when built, purely road or track days etc
[Edited on 6/6/10 by will121]
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RK
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 01:22 PM |
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Yesterday I drove my approx 200 HP CEC at autocross. It was the first time I'd ever really revved it, and the first time it went more than a few
metres as a car. I am not on the road at this point, but now I'm thinking I might not be too upset if it never gets there. I never got out of
second gear, but it revved like mad, made the right kinds of noises, and handled fantastically. My times were not going to win, but they were actually
competitive. My point? You won't care, once it's built.
[Edited on 6/6/10 by RK]
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eddie99
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 01:27 PM |
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I'd certainly get a few more rides in a BEC, maybe a longer one before you do anything drastic and decide to swap.
With current climate, you're not going to get much money if you decided to sellup, but on the other hand, you could pick up another part built
(for BEC) for similar money. Its your decision, but as said above, once its built, i don't think you'll care!
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sdh2903
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 01:41 PM |
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quote:
i think as been said before the appeal of bike engine is as you say, but to me a size zero super model is appealing for a weekend but wouldnt want to
marry one.
Love that comparison^^
Thanks for all the great replies, some very good points, exactly what i was after.
I have now got a longer jaunt in a BEC sorted to get some time in. However I think its going to go forward as a CEC for now. I thinks its got to be
simpler come IVA time.
As for the folks who didnt like my post, I know there are lots and lots of threads "CEC vs BEC" etc, that wasnt what I was after at all, I
was looking for any views on swapping direction mid project.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 6/6/10 at 02:32 PM |
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If you're building a CEC but really want a BEC, I'd make the change now ASAP. Your heart and enthusiasm just wouldn't be in the
build.
Decide whether you prefer CEC or BEC and build whichever you ultimately want. You may end up regretting it if you don't........
Phil
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