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Author: Subject: Hybrids - why not gas turbine

posted on 25/9/10 at 03:36 PM Reply With Quote
Hybrids - why not gas turbine

Been wandering about this for a while - why not use something like this

in a hybrid to recharge batteries.

Would be really lightweight if high speed generator was used and at approximately 60% efficiency most probably cheaper than on grid charging.

Realise there is a lot of development to do and there might be issues around emissions - not sure how clean burning it will be but it would be a light weight solution to long distance travelling in an hybrid, and turbines are at their best running at a single speed so would be ideal for recharging at the average consumption rate - would also make a very efficient home charger.

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posted on 25/9/10 at 03:57 PM Reply With Quote
Have you heard how LOUD they are even the small ones. probably due to the fact they run at very high rpm's.
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posted on 25/9/10 at 04:38 PM Reply With Quote
Noise is the primary one, Jag are currently looking at this with a specialist company developing a small quiet (er) turbine.
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posted on 25/9/10 at 04:39 PM Reply With Quote
Are they not the same as a turbo's turbine, in that it can use a moving gas to drive a shaft of some form?

The reason why they're not used in turbo's for IC engines is due to the tolerances required. The plates need to be rather close together and expansion will alter this. They also need to be thin and strong, so while it may be good in theory, the materials required aren't reall practicle.

The aerodynamic problems stem from the gas being a boundary layer, reducing its energy to efectivley zero and having little means of escaping from the turbine. There's little wrong with standard turbine wheel.

Is this intended to be a gas turbine for use in a car? If so, why use a tesla turbine and not any other kind of well developed turbine? The problems with them, as said above is noise, as the temperature of the gas exhausted.

Why not just use a small diesel generator? The problem being that to charge a battery at the rate the energy is being used, the generator would need an oupput similar to that of electric motors, so about the same output as a small car engine. Not with standing the short period high energy output and such, but the point's there. I think.

[Edited on 25/9/10 by brianthemagical]

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posted on 25/9/10 at 04:48 PM Reply With Quote
Like this?

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posted on 25/9/10 at 05:02 PM Reply With Quote
I think the Tesla turbine would be a lot quieter than conventional designs because combustion is in a separate chamber and the discs will most probably act as a silencer but as said before - I don't know anything about it but it piqued my interest.

Am sure there are good reasons why it hasn't been pursued more vigorously, just wander what they are, technical or vested interests.

Edit - wrote this before seeing Brianthmagical's input - yes I am sure there are technical problems with the plates, good point re clearing the stagnant air form the plates.

[Edited on 25/9/10 by Ivan]

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posted on 25/9/10 at 05:45 PM Reply With Quote
I seem to remember it's possible to tune a turbine to work at a fixed speed to generate elastictrickery with very high efficiency but also tune the exhaust to have it be very quiet. I think capstone have done this already with a car-specific turbine?

I think a closed-circuit steam turbine running off exhaust heat would be an interesting addition to this (again capstone make these but I don't think they have them this small), and maybe even a tertiary ethanol closed-circuit too. BMW have demonstrated prototypes which do this with waste heat from IC engine exhausts and water jackets.

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posted on 25/9/10 at 05:47 PM Reply With Quote
Serial Hybrid/Tesla Turbine scepticism

Various manufacturers including Rover have researched Gas turbines so scepticism is in order. Blaming politics and retooling charges for the technology not being adopted is also grounds for doubt. Just as likely is that the technology isn't very good.

I guess that the Tesla turbine isn't compressing the air before combustion which doesn't seem good for efficiency so I want proof of the 60% figure and a thermodynamic analysis. It just seems like a pretty poor power turbine. Also series hybrid solutuions (like the Chevy Volt) seem like a bad idea because the combustion engine output has to be converted to electricity and then back to mechanical output likely loosing a few percent for each conversion.

The parallel hybrid approach where the combustion engine drives the wheels directly is being used by Honda, Toyota, Mercedes Benz etc. and makes sense particularly for markets who don't like diesel for emissions reasons.

Anablog isn't a great fan of some of the Electric Vehicle hype.

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posted on 25/9/10 at 06:07 PM Reply With Quote
By using the tesla turbine, you have a turning output shaft as opposed to thrust.

You will however, still need to produce hot gases via a conventional engine or turbine to turn the tesla.

Kindest Regards,

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