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Author: Subject: Fuel pump for OHC Pinto 1600cc
Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 12:04 PM Reply With Quote
Fuel pump for OHC Pinto 1600cc

Hi,

I'm building a locost using a 1600cc OHC Pinto engine and I'm now looking for a fuel pump but I don't know much about that...
I've seen a few on eBay but which one to choose? Electric? Fuel flow rate? Obviously i'll be squeeze every bhp the engine as to give so...
I'd appreciate some guidance!
Thanks

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britishtrident

posted on 17/11/10 at 12:44 PM Reply With Quote
What carb(s) or injection are you using, with carbs you can use either low pressure electric or the standard mechanical pump. With injection you need high pressure electric.

Loads of choice ---- if you want to keep things really simple I have brand new mechanical pump somewhere in the shed. If you choose an electric pump it must be a low pressure type (under 3 psi) for Weber carbs.

For injection you will find some bargain priced new in-line hp pumps on ebay for less than £40.00

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DarrenW

posted on 17/11/10 at 01:12 PM Reply With Quote
Std mechanical pump will be good for up to approx 150bhp motor on carbs. As BT says fuel injection will need bigger one (and a return line). if fitting bike carbs or throttle bodies it makes sense to get the pump off the bike that originally supplied them if you want an electric type.

Many moons ago i tried a red top facet with a set of 38DGAS carbs - WAY to much pressure / flow. Tried a regulator but the pusling effect of the pump was too strong for the reg to cope with - hence suggesting getting the pump designed for the application.

Dont forget the filters. One at the tank and one before carbs will be good idea. i got mine from Halfords. Throw away types. Went through the boxes to find something of a decent size and not too expensive.






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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 01:12 PM Reply With Quote
I'll be using Weber carbs, probably Weber 40. No injection...
So, any electric pump will do?
I can't use the factory pump because it gets in the way of the steering column. My car is left hand side wheel.

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DarrenW

posted on 17/11/10 at 01:21 PM Reply With Quote
i was running ZZR1100 carbs. I think they were similar ish sized to weber 45's. got a bike electric pump from 1000cc bike. That should do the trick. AS BT says, if you buy a new one you probs dont need more than 3psi. Hopefully someone will be along soon to propose a good spec pump.

Dont forget to blank off the fuel pump hole in the block. The blanking plate from an injected pinto is, non surprisingly, made for the job.

While you are piping it up - also get good quality fuel hose. Too many reports about hoses perishing over time and fuel getting sprayed about. Inspect regularly.


As an aside, something like megajolt will make the car run better. I was surprised at the improvement. Not so much performance, more smooth running (not as critical if you have new dizzy etc though). Only raising this now as its good idea to fit the TPS while you are busy fitting the carbs.






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mcerd1

posted on 17/11/10 at 01:54 PM Reply With Quote
if you get bike carbs (alot cheaper than new webbers for the same power ) then you'll need a fuel pump from a carb'd bike - using a generic pump (even with a regulator) can cause problems

the bike carbs work in a different way and the bike pumps are designed to work with them without the need for any regulators

lucky second hand bike pumps are quite cheap

[Edited on 17/11/2010 by mcerd1]





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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 04:44 PM Reply With Quote
Ok, so bike carb's equals Weber's performance but a lot cheaper.
What should I look for? Any carb is suitable? What about the throttle link? Easy adaptable?

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snapper

posted on 17/11/10 at 05:42 PM Reply With Quote
Throttle cable is dead easy to mod, use a bike fuel pump or facet with malpasi filter king fuel filter/regulator





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snapper

posted on 17/11/10 at 05:51 PM Reply With Quote
Just a point.... You say you will squeeze every bhp out of the 1.6 so why not put in a 2.0L straight away and gain 30bhp for nothing, then every mod you do, which will be the same as you would do on the smaller engine, will gain 20% more for the same money.
I could get you 130bhp with cam, carbs and a gasket the 1.6 would make the same as a base 2.0L
Worth a thought.
By the way add your location to your details





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ashg

posted on 17/11/10 at 06:16 PM Reply With Quote
good luck getting 130bhp out of a 1600 pinto. mine has a nice cam bike carbs and megajolt and the best i could get without spending big money was 90bhp which only just keeps up with hot hatches.

scrap the pinto and fit an 1800 zetec from an escort more power and double the economy





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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
Yes, I understand but I must work with what I have and what I have is a 1600cc.
Could you refer some examples or models with carbs that will fit on my engine?

Location added...

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ashg

posted on 17/11/10 at 07:08 PM Reply With Quote
i have got a set of zx6r carbs with manifold to fit a 1.6 pinto. i also have a megajolt ignition system. It has all been rolling road tuned to work on a 1600 pinto.

if you want it i can include the following

carbs
inlet manifold
edis4
trigger wheel and modified crank pulley.
vr sensor and bracket
coil pack
ht leads
megajolt
throttle position sensor
wiring loom to connect it all together.

i also have the ckc article to prove that the carbs and megajolt were professionally setup for my old 1600 engine by ATSPEED racing on their rolling road.

basically its everything you need to get your pinto engine up and running on bike carbs and electronic ignition

i will take £250 for the lot which is half of what it cost me with the professional rolling road setup of the carbs etc.





Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!

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mcerd1

posted on 17/11/10 at 09:20 PM Reply With Quote
this will tell you whats involved in fitting bike carbs http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/files/legacy/TOV64.tech60697.pdf

I think R6 or ZX6R carbs would be about right for a 1600 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the bogg bros manifolds are very nice, but not very locost - a DIY steel one would be alot cheaper, there are a few folk that can sort you out with laser/waterjet cut flanges

the megajolt is optional but cheaper than an aftermarket tunned dizzy





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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 10:08 PM Reply With Quote
Ok, during my research for this matter I received several opinions.

One of them was to install a fuel injection system which is much easier to tune than the carbs. Is it true? I know there's a fuel injection version of this engine, but mine isn't.

Another idea was the installation of ITB's...

Of course my objective is to achieve the best performance possible from this engine.

So, what do you have to say about this?

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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 10:54 PM Reply With Quote
I've been reading a lot and watching some videos I'm leaning to fuel injection system with independent throttle bodies/injectors... There are no downsides. From what I could understand is better in every way than carburetors.

But what about the conversion? What parts do I need? What details not to neglect?

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mcerd1

posted on 17/11/10 at 10:56 PM Reply With Quote
the fact that your engine is a carb'd one just now has nothing to do with EFI - the stock stuff isn't really tunable at all (I think there are a couple of chips avalible for the 2.0 but thats it)

ITB's will probably give you the best performance but will cost a fair bit more than the bike carbs - how much more depends on which ECU and TB's you get.... (bike TB's or Jenvey's - and as for ECU's - megasquirt, omex, emerald and many many more)
at the end of the day £250 for a full carb + MJ setup is an offer thats hard to beat


with all pinto's the power is in porting the head and the choice of cam - the EFI heads are a little better to start with, but its far from perfect
after that a 2.0 bored out to 2.1 (normaly a 205 block) will give you a bit more then I

[Edited on 17/11/2010 by mcerd1]





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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 11:03 PM Reply With Quote
Can I find good used TB's? What should I look for?
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Tilo

posted on 17/11/10 at 11:34 PM Reply With Quote
I'm looking at a suzuki gsxr 750 TB's all included (injectors, wiring, sensors...)
Are this suitable for my engine?

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mcerd1

posted on 18/11/10 at 09:35 AM Reply With Quote
it might be worth doing a quick search through the old posts - there are plenty of threads about choosing and fitting TB's


the down side of EFI is how complex it is and how much work you need to do to set it up right - the carbs are alot easier





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Tilo

posted on 18/11/10 at 01:37 PM Reply With Quote
That's the thing!

Some say carburetors are too difficult to set and deregulate very easily. Unlike EFI which set's up almost for it self, they say...

If I can get a complete EFI system from a bike, for instance, a suzuki gsxr (TB's, injectors, throttle sensor, fuel pump, etc...) wouldn't it be relatively easy to install (brackets, hoses and pipes)? And with a megajolt unit or equivalent would it make things a little simpler?

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mcerd1

posted on 19/11/10 at 12:52 AM Reply With Quote
probably best to start a new thread about EFI - I went for carbs for mine so I don't have all the answers....



don't worry too much about the pipes and fittings - there are ways round all that, you can easy get different injectors, fuel rails etc.....
the manifold will be a custom one very similar to one for bike carbs


the main thing is the ECU - it has to be one you can re-program to suit (with a laptop normaly)

that means getting an aftermarket ECU, which normally costs a fair bit more than a carb'd setup - but if you get the right one you'd never need to change it again what ever tunning you do in the future...



btw - megajolt does the sparks only - you'd be looking for megasquirt, omex or similar for EFI




[Edited on 19/11/2010 by mcerd1]





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Tilo

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:35 PM Reply With Quote
Well folks,

After many hours of reading and advising, i took the decision of going for EFI.
I'm beting on a suzuki gsxr throttle bodies. As soon as I can grab one of those for a good price...
Just wanted to know what other parts will I need.
What kind of fuel pump should i look for? Is there any compatible pump that wont need the return line to tank? I read something about it... What about the tank swirl to prevent fuel starvation on cornering?

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Stuart_B

posted on 23/11/10 at 07:53 PM Reply With Quote
hi,

the fuel pump will have to be a high pressure pump, and high pressure filter, then a return line to the tank as well will be need, or to the swirl pot, which will be need as well, as the way i look at it, you might as well only do now, will you have the car in bits., so that means a low pressure pump, from the tank to the swirl pot as well.

as for type facet fuel pumps are good

stuart





black mk indy, 1.6pinto on cbr600 bike carb's.

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Tilo

posted on 23/11/10 at 08:13 PM Reply With Quote
Sorry, didn't get that.

First you say high pressure pump and then low pressure pump... I can see you have fitted cbr600 tb's on your Pinto. Can you post the link for your building so I can check it?

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mcerd1

posted on 23/11/10 at 10:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tilo
Sorry, didn't get that.

First you say high pressure pump and then low pressure pump...


low pressure for carbs

hight pressure for injection





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