TimEllershaw
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 03:17 PM |
|
|
House Wiring - Part P vs Real World
I'm after some Real World opinions :
I've just moved into an old house and want to update some of the wiring. New sockets, improved ring main wiring, general tidy up type stuff.
Now, I've read a load of Building Reg documents and forms, and (think) I understand the process of inspections, local council building control,
"competent person" and part P, so have a good handle on the "official" way to do this.
But...
How many DIYers actually follow this ?
In the "Real World" what do people do ?
Is it in the same category as all those bits that magically "fall off" a car after IVA ??
Do I just do it and keep quiet,
or fill in the paperwork and then do it,
or give up and pay someone "competent" to do it ?
Thanks,
Tim.
http://www.teenagecancertrust.org/
|
|
|
|
|
daviep
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 03:37 PM |
|
|
Due to the fact that nobody on here knows whether you have the required skills to to complete the work safely then it's not really a question
that anybody apart from you should be answering. In my opinion it comes down to your competence and consciense.
I know my own abiliites and would happily do basic work myself.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
TimEllershaw
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 03:51 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Due to the fact that nobody on here knows whether you have the required skills to to complete the work safely then it's not really a question
that anybody apart from you should be answering. In my opinion it comes down to your competence and consciense.
I know my own abiliites and would happily do basic work myself.
Davie
Agreed. ( I think I can do it safely, and would be happy with my family living in the house with the finished work. )
but I was looking more from the bureaucracy and paperwork side of things. Eg. (assuming you are not a qualified sparky) If you were going to replace
the upstairs ringmain in your house, would you tell Building control ?
Tim
ETA : The Part P stuff doesn't apply (as far as I know) in Scottland, so may not apply to you, but the general question of doing the paperwork
still applies.
[Edited on 18/11/2011 by TimEllershaw]
http://www.teenagecancertrust.org/
|
|
|
whitestu
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 03:58 PM |
|
|
Assuming you are happy you know what you are doing you can still do a lot of stuff without needing part P, or going through building control
particularly things like replacement of damaged cables, sockets etc.
The issues arising if selling the house where it is obvious work has been done and there is no ceritfication, and the possible risk of invalidating
insurance should your work result in the house burning down.
I assume the current cable is red / black? The new colours post part P are blue & brown so it will be obvious if changes have been made.
If you do work yourself ideally you should carry out the appropriate tests and record the results.
Stu
|
|
|
mrwibble
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 03:59 PM |
|
|
As long as it was done competently, I wouldn't open that can of worms.
|
|
|
Ninehigh
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:16 PM |
|
|
I've replaced light switches before now, they're only slightly more complicated that wiring a plug and tbh I think if you can't do
that right then you shouldn't be allowed out of sight of your carer.. I mean there were instruction on the package on what wire goes where, and
it even said they might be red and black!
|
|
|
mrwibble
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:24 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I've replaced light switches before now, they're only slightly more complicated that wiring a plug and tbh I think if you can't do
that right then you shouldn't be allowed out of sight of your carer.. I mean there were instruction on the package on what wire goes where, and
it even said they might be red and black!
i had good fun with a 3 gang switch the other day, turns out it was the light fitting that was faulty, but there was a lot of wires to get mixed up,
I'll definately take a photo of anything I'm going to mess with in future.
|
|
|
jossey
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:25 PM |
|
|
DIY'er do not need to comply with PART P for updating a current system.
BUT you do need to confident of your work as it may invalidate your insurance if you cause a fire or blow ye self up.....
Sockets and moving wiring etc isnt difficult but i would suggest getting a sparky in to check your work as you dont need part P then you will just get
a safety cert simular to landlords CERT.....
Thanks
David Johnson
Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.
|
|
|
daviep
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:32 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I've replaced light switches before now, they're only slightly more complicated that wiring a plug and tbh I think if you can't do
that right then you shouldn't be allowed out of sight of your carer.. I mean there were instruction on the package on what wire goes where, and
it even said they might be red and black!
If you base electrical competency on wiring a plug then most average joes would fail in my experience.
What the instructions don't normally tell you is how to trim the insulation to the correct length or or make sure that knock out in a plastic
box is smooth or the multitude of other basic details which make the difference between a tidy professional job and a shambles.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:49 PM |
|
|
And a moan here about socket, as I replaced a couple of cracked ones today....why do different manufacturers insist on having different positions for
the terminals, and the sparky's don't leave enough spare cable to rearrange the cables. Bah. Spent about 30mins going through other
sockets until I found a matching one that could be replaced with the new ones.
Back to the original post. I rewired and partially rewired more than one house when you were allowed to (pre 2000 I think) and the current rules allow
you to swap sockets/switches etc (or at least they did)
However, IF you believe you are competent, I wouldn't hesitate to replace a ring main. And I wouldn't worry about being "caught
out" as the worst that is likely to happen is somebody will make you have it tested. A periodic inspect down my way (Brighton) costs about £125
and covers everything that will make you worry. After my initial tests on our rentals most of the "very dangerous" issues involved needing
warning stickers on the consumer units and red sleeving on cables at the light switches. And some trunking covering was missing......all horrendous
stuff really.
|
|
|
omega 24 v6
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:53 PM |
|
|
quote:
which make the difference between a tidy professional job and a shambles
How do you explain the professional jobs that are a shambles many with just the faults you have listed DavieP
[Edited on 18/11/11 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
|
|
|
TimEllershaw
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:54 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
DIY'er do not need to comply with PART P for updating a current system.
As I understand it there is a border line between replacing like for like (not notifiable) and replacing and re-routing (notifiable)
The upstairs ring is not exactly a ring - more a piece of abstract art that has evolved over time, so I was planning on starting a fresh and putting
in some nice new cable in a nice simple route.
- so think I fall just on the notifiable side of the line.
http://www.teenagecancertrust.org/
|
|
|
tegwin
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 04:59 PM |
|
|
The joys of an old house that has been "DIYed" over the years means the wiring could be in any state....
I advise you not to do any work on the wiring.... as it was all "perfect when you moved in".. COUGH  and when you come to move on, you
never touched the wiring..... cant be proved either way... and if it all worked and is out of sight.. who is to know anyway!
You only really have issues if you do something big like put an extension up with new kitchen and wire in a new consumer unit... this needs to be
aproved and signed off.... which is a bitch if your electrician bleeps off without doing the paperwork!
Just get on with it..... there is far to much of this pussyfooting about these days.... and besides, homebase/B&Q etc still sell cable,
sockets, switches etc....... so someone must be doing some wiring..... :p
[Edited on 18/11/11 by tegwin]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
|
|
|
cliftyhanger
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 05:00 PM |
|
|
hmm, if you find the start and end points, I reckon replacing the in between parts may be OK.
And don't forget the warning sticker on the consumer unit, that says both red/blacl and brown/blue cabling is used in the house. Don't
want anybody getting confused.
|
|
|
daviep
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 05:21 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
which make the difference between a tidy professional job and a shambles
How do you explain the professional jobs that are a shambles many with just the faults you have listed DavieP
[Edited on 18/11/11 by omega 24 v6]
Being a qualified sparkie doesn't automatically make you a "good" sparkie. I also know of quite a few crap mechanics and plumbers
who are also "tradesmen".
How does Joe Bloggs know what a proper install should look like if all he ever sees it the mess that the last "tradesman" left.
Conversley I know a few DIY'ers that could put most tradesmen to shame at whatever they turn their hand to.
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
|
|
|
matt_gsxr
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 05:39 PM |
|
|
What is part P?
Having seen the wiring in question, I don't think leaving it is actually an option.
Matt
|
|
|
ninja02
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 06:06 PM |
|
|
I'm a time served electrician, qualifications galore in electrical work inc degree and because of Part P I theoretically cannot do my own
electrical work.
Phill
|
|
|
macc man
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 06:29 PM |
|
|
Best way to save a bit and stay on the legal side is to run in all the new cables and get an electrician to test and terminate for you. This is what I
usually do when refitting bathrooms.
|
|
|
v8kid
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 07:28 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ninja02
I'm a time served electrician, qualifications galore in electrical work inc degree and because of Part P I theoretically cannot do my own
electrical work.
Phill
Funny same here - I used to run a training school for a large electrical utility company providing the training to part P and guess what - I
can't sign off work either.
Crazy system only looks at ticking boxes and takes no account of past experience or knowledge.
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
|
|
|
Stott
|
| posted on 18/11/11 at 07:36 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
quote:
Originally posted by ninja02
I'm a time served electrician, qualifications galore in electrical work inc degree and because of Part P I theoretically cannot do my own
electrical work.
Phill
Funny same here - I used to run a training school for a large electrical utility company providing the training to part P and guess what - I
can't sign off work either.
Crazy system only looks at ticking boxes and takes no account of past experience or knowledge.
Cheers!
+2 here, Authorised Person on 11kv, but run a swa to the garage.... better call the tradesmen
Also Whitestu earlier pointed out the change in colours to the european harmonised ones, well, as luck would have it they introduced the colour
harmonisation BEFORE part p, so WHO KNOWS when work was done..........................
[Edited on 18/11/11 by Stott]
|
|
|
