SJL
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 08:16 AM |
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Hi Dave
Yes this applies to all Busas.
Thanks for confirming what I thought about the gear indicator on Gen 1 bikes. Thought I was right  and I hadn't gone senile! The gear
indicators will work as they just piggy back into the gear position switch your ECU just isn't seeing what actual gear you are in.
On mine I actually have used a hydraulic brake light switch although mine is installed at the slave union. It works ok for me as my engine is a 07.
Gen 2 bikes with IACV need to see the switch on/off cycle due to the newer better ECU technology.
Although in hindsight now it would have been easier to install a micro switch on the clutch pedal. I had to do this with my brake light switch as the
standard Westfield one although working needed lots of pedal pressure to make the lights come on.
Does that make sense?
Steve
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bobinspain
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 08:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Custardpants
does seem very strange bob hope you get it sorted. My light only comes on if I stall the car.
Further to my reply yesterday Luke, (I'm re-reading everything to try to get it into my thick skull): My FI light comes on at what is really a
'stall' ie, on downshifting (manually), say from 5th at 6k rpm. Lift-off throttle, depress clutch, revs fall off rapido, (down beyond idle
to the stall). Drop into 4th and release the clutch, engine picks up (like a 'bump start' and off we go, with the FI light
illuminated.
The above is what MK say they find in their installations (the reason for which is proving illusive to track down).
Bob.
[Edited on 8/3/12 by bobinspain]
[Edited on 8/3/12 by bobinspain]
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Davegtst
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 09:01 AM |
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Might be a bit of a rubbish sugestion but what about some kind of damper on the throttle just before it shuts. IIRC some old peugeots have this to
stop the engine stalling when you come off the throttle fast.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 09:28 AM |
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The plot thickens------
Just spoken to MK (Dan) and he confirmed that "----a hydraulic clutch position switch is used. That's what the bike uses."
SJL may yet prove my salvation. Over to you Steve.
[Edited on 8/3/12 by bobinspain]
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roadrunner
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 10:22 AM |
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I might come across a bit fick here, but couldn't we just leave the clutch switch as it is on the bike. Surely it would be just a case of
engaging brain
every time we park our cars , and leave them in neutral ready for the re start.
That would then solve the fuelling and mapping issues related to newer bike engines.
Brad.
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eddie99
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 10:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
I might come across a bit fick here, but couldn't we just leave the clutch switch as it is on the bike. Surely it would be just a case of
engaging brain
every time we park our cars , and leave them in neutral ready for the re start.
That would then solve the fuelling and mapping issues related to newer bike engines.
Brad.
The reason us 'racers' do it is incase we spin and stall, bike engines can be a pain to get from 4th to neutral without rolling forward
and backwards, something you cant do when your on the track. However instead of just joining the two wires on the switch like you can do on the old
BEC's, we have momentary switches on the steering wheel etc.. otherwise we have found that just 1 set of injectors work or something annoying
like that.
Speak to Andy Bates, see if he has any other ideas
[Edited on 8/3/12 by eddie99]
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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SJL
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| posted on 8/3/12 at 10:48 AM |
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It only really becomes an issue when you have gear based mapping as is used on a lot of the current Superbikes.
I am sure Mr Suzuki didnt decide to have a map per gear on a whim 
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SJL
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 01:41 PM |
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Just to bring this up to date.
Bob has been out and tested the car today and has confirmed it is the switch.
To test it I had asked him to start the car with the switch connected then disconnect it once running. He then tested the car and has had no F/I light
come on  .
Upon reconnecting the switch the F/I light illuminated within 1 kilometre.
What a result
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bobinspain
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 02:23 PM |
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I found I could delay the onset of the FI light by slow downshifting and allowing revs to drop right off. That way, I'd get 6 or 7km without
illuminating the FI light. First hint of an 'everyday downshift' and on came the light.
Tried SJL's suggestion and with one spade off the clutch-switch/hydraulic union (photo) located on the bulkhead, did around half a dozen robust
downshifts over 3kms with no appearance of the light.
On reconnection, as Steve say's, FI back on within a km and the first downshift.
Muchas gracias to SJL and those who helped him help me.
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purdy
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 08:02 PM |
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Hi guys
ive picked up a diagramme of the net, im sure you have proberbly seen it, i see that resisters have been added to avoid certain sensors and switchs,
im currently wiring a k2 into a new westfield busa kit, the local wiring is in i'e 2x fuse boxes and wiring loom for lights,horn,etc,etc. the
bike harness isnt intergrated as yet anyone with any pointers on how to go about this????
Cheers
Purdy
linky for diagramme. http://www.team-moto.com/HayabusaWireHarness.jpg
ps helpfull phone numbers would be apprieciated as i will be in the garage all day tomorrow and i want to get this nipped in the busa....
TOS is replaced with a 68 K Ohm resistor (KILO OHM).
Connect one end of the resistor to the black wire coming from the ECU (pin # 2, not the black wire that goes from the ECU to your #2 ignition coil!).
Splice the other end of the resistor into the B/Br wire coming from the ECU.
For the ignition Switch, connect one end of the 150 Ohm resistor to the O/Y wire coming from the ECU. Connect the other end of the resistor to Ground
(B/W wire).
For the 1999 model there should be a Red wire and a R/W wire coming from the starter relay, (later models just replaced the R/W wire with another Red
wire).
Run the R/Bl wire from your fuel pump relay straight to the R/W wire from the Starter relay. Place a 10 amp inline fuse between the R/W wire and the
R/Bl wire.
Connect the O/B wire from your kill switch direct to the Red wire from your starter relay. Place a 15 Amp fuse inline between the O/B and R wires.
Run the O/W wire from your Kill Switch to your fuel pump relay. (The O/W wire also feeds the Starter Button).
The Y/R and Y/B wires lead to the ECU.
Don't run the fuel pump dry. The pump relies on fuel running though it for cooling.
See how that goes.
Mark Purdham
markpurdham@aol.com
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SJL
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 08:22 PM |
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Bit confused with your post but have sent you the proper instructions for the Busa loom mods.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 12/4/12 at 01:21 PM |
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Now fitted a dpst push button instead of the single pole as supplied.
The double pole single throw isn't as 'pretty' as the chrome factory fit, but I've tarted up the switch body with some di-noc
and it blends well with the c/f aero-switch backplate.
Ran the clutch position indicator wires from the hydrauylic union on the bulkhead to two poles of the starter button.
Fires up spot on (without depressing the clutch now), but I can't test for the FI light as I can't get off my driveway for a bloody big
skip blocking the way.
The theory is, that the ECU should always 'see' the clutch as engaged (except for startup) and thus not fanny around with dropping revs
and illuminating the FI light 'thinking' that over-revving's occurring because of clutch disengagement.
Flatshifter 'Expert' now arrived, so got that to fit., along with AB's F/S bypass (threads passim).
Need to have another bash at recalibrating the fuel gauge, (still reads 10 litres or so low).
Got some sexy, black ally to glass in as a rad' stone guard.
Track days starting at Calafat (one hour north of us) next week.
At this rate, my pride and joy will be too precious to track!
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bobinspain
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| posted on 22/4/12 at 04:59 PM |
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Now been out for an 80km test run. The DPST Push button is the answer to the problem. No FI light over the whole journey.
I have informed MK.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 26/6/12 at 07:38 PM |
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Update on fitting a DPST large momentary push button to cure the FI light problem:----------
There's such an item on ebay which is rated at 16a 240v a/c. I removed the MK single pole button and fitted this one.
I needed a double pole single throw (DPST) which would ideally be rated at 40-50a and 12v d/c and couldn't find one. This was the nearest
alternative.
I fitted the button to my Busa and the two circuits simulataneously operate the starter motor and the clutch-position-indicator circuit. I encountered
a problem yesterday which may be down to 'splashing' of the contacts which produced the short I experienced.
I have the 'gated' aircraft toggle switch for power-on/off and the push-button for starting. I was taken aback yesterday, when on
operating the toggle switch, (without touching the push-button), the engine fired into life. (See photo 2 in my archive for the dash setup).
Turns out there's a short on two contacts of the DPST push button. I switched off and removed the switches and by easing (with pliers) the spade
contacts broke the short, but I'm afraid it may happen again, and a permanently made staarter-motor circuit wouldn't be healthy.
Any ideas where I can get the correctly rated d/c DPST momentary push button?
I know watts=amps x volts and just using the numbers, the a/c switch would appear man enough for the job, (16a x 240v versus 50a x 12v for the d/c
switch--if I could find one).
I started a new thread in 'electrical,' but since you guys on this thread are familiar with the history, then you may have a head-start.
(Especially you Mike and SJL). Any assistance would be really appreciated.
Bob.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 7/10/12 at 03:11 PM |
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So 5 months down the line, car and engine now done an astronomical 700 miles, (400 since the DPST switch was fitted to 'cure' the spurious
FI light) and guess what?
Yep, out of nowhere, the bleedin' FI light has started coming on again.
This time, it is not downshift related. I was simply pootling along at 4-5000rpm and on came the light.
I stopped, re-started, no light, but within 5 km, on came the light again.
No other symptoms.
Any ideas? (Given the history as documented on here).
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Davegtst
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| posted on 7/10/12 at 05:40 PM |
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Is it still the same code stored?
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cosmick
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 08:34 AM |
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Don't forget that the FI light is there for any Fuel Injection related fault. It may not be the same problem. can you tell us what the C code
is?
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 08:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmick
Don't forget that the FI light is there for any Fuel Injection related fault. It may not be the same problem. can you tell us what the C code
is?
Mike,
I still have my trusty paperclip, but I've forgotten which terminals to bridge to get the code up
Additionally, with the light being intermittent, (came on after 5km) will the code come up without the light being illuminated?
If not, I'll have to drive around to get the light on and return to the driveway to do the diagnostic thingy.
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cosmick
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| posted on 8/10/12 at 12:28 PM |
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Unfortunately, it will only show you a C code when the FI light is on, if you want to see the code Do not turn the ignition off, stall the engine
instead and have the paper clip ready or connect the paper clip before going out on test.
The colours of the wires to join together are White/Red to Black/white.
If it can't be fixed with a hammer then its probably an electrical problem.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 9/10/12 at 02:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cosmick
Unfortunately, it will only show you a C code when the FI light is on, if you want to see the code Do not turn the ignition off, stall the engine
instead and have the paper clip ready or connect the paper clip before going out on test.
The colours of the wires to join together are White/Red to Black/white.
Just been out Mike. -C 40 came up.
Nothing to do with revs or downshifting. I was coasting down a very steep, twisty hill in 3rd, and on it came.
I was 300yds away from the driveway, so came straight back and checked it out.
I have the DPST switch fitted. It's one of two I got sent out. I have a brand new unopened one in the garage.
Regards, Bob.
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bobinspain
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| posted on 25/10/12 at 11:24 AM |
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So the story continues---------dear reader----
Went out yesterday and got the FI light on within 200m of leaving the driveway.
Did around 20km and parked back on the drive. Inadvertently, I'd left the car in second gear.
Realising my mistake, I flicked the power-on switch (didn't touch the starter button), and was shocked to hear the car turn over (very
sluggishly). I'd naturally depressed the clutch, since I knew I'd left the car in-gear.
Car didn't start as there wasn't enough ooomph in the turnover.
I waited 5 mins and went back to try again. Depressed clutch, and power on switch to 'on' vroom, fired and started.
I can only assume the DPST switch has splashed/arced closed and thus and the starter circuit is
permanently made, without depressing the start button.
Having temporarliy solved the spurious FI light, I'm back to where I started.
I have a spare, new DPST start button, but (see previous posts) I'm not sure it's man enough for the job,
and why did I get the FI light back when for 300km the DPST switch appeared to solve the problem?
Any ideas? (particularly Cosmick and Steve).
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gtr_garner
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| posted on 25/10/12 at 05:06 PM |
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hmm im going to have to watch this thread and have a look what clutch switch setup i am using.
Mine is an MK GT1 without a flatshift and i havent had the PCIII plugged in yet. I dont have to clutch down when start, is an 02 engine and i have an
aftermarket push start button.
I occaisionally get the FI light, the drivability is never affected like yours. havent been able to get a code reading yet but will when i next get
the car out, is so intermittent which is annoying.
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SJL
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| posted on 30/10/12 at 08:22 PM |
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Bob you have email.
Will post the details up here if the fix works
If not I am coming over for a LCB holiday!
[Edited on 30/10/12 by SJL]
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bobinspain
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| posted on 31/10/12 at 08:28 AM |
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Spare appt. downstairs all permanently prepped up for guests. Just ask Baz at MK and his co-driver who delivered my car. They had a very pleasant few
days stay, (though february was a little too cold to use the swimming pool).
I've replied to your email Steve.
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Duncan36
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| posted on 6/11/12 at 01:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SJL
Bit confused with your post but have sent you the proper instructions for the Busa loom mods.
Hi SJL
If you still have them, is there any chance that you can send me the instructions as well. I had the same image as above, but writtien instructions to
modify the loom would be much easier. My busa is a generation 1 from 2003.
many thanks
Duncan
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