Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 01:18 PM |
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Brake line routing woes (comments please)!
Knowledgable massive - can you have a look at my proposed brake line routing (there is no offside front yet as I need to 'tweak' the
orientation of my master cyl).
The pipes were pre cut and flared by the guys at MK, and so I can only assume that this is the inteded routing.. however
Few questions...
1. For my nearside front, a tidy install leaves this much overhang - is this going to be a problem when coupling to flexis or will a fabricated
bracket do the job from here?
 
Description
2. Is the position of my light switch OK.. can anyone foresee any issue with putting it here?
 
Description
3. Given the lenghts of the front to rear and the rear pipes to tee, I cant see any other option than the below - thoughts / comments ideas welcome as
it just doesnt sit quite right with me - too much out in free space.
 
Description
4. Finally, as I route below the diff, it seems awfully exposed - is this OK (bear in mind its a mock fit and will be tidied for final install)
 
Description
Phew!!
Last question (honest).. After forking out 40 quid on p clips (to be rivnutted) I found brake pipes as per rallydesign website
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9971&osCsid=nlf7dbe5lho829jlfc7qjidvt2 - should I abandon the p-clip route?
Pros, smaller holes and professional install, cons - I spent a pile on p - clips!
As always, thanks for the help
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:19 PM |
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You need brackets to hold the ends of the pipes.
Those rally design brackets wont pass IVA as they arent mechanically fixed, they also look cheap and nasty.
Also if that brake light switch is in the rear brake line it probably wont work well.
Also you dont really want the brake pipes floating across gaps, much better for it to follow the chassis rails nice and tight throughout the car.
Make it look professional and the IVA man wont look to hard
Ben
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:20 PM |
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Also just noticed the plastic work stands your using... not good. I made that mistake, the car went crashing to the floor as it got too heavy for
them. Not good if your under it !!
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:33 PM |
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Cheers Ben, feedback appreciated. So rivnuts and p clips look like the best method.
The car is coming off trestles and dropped to axle stands as soon as I get the corners built up - but warning well taken.. I think they are fine in
compression, but awful if twisted, I am being very delicate!
The routing seems to be the only feasible ones given the pre cut an flared fittings that came with the kit. I may buy some kunifer and custom make.
Thanks again 
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:37 PM |
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I would if i was you. it need shaping and bending as you fit it. My brake line goes above the diff not below it.
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 05:15 PM |
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the way I did my brake light switch was to have the electrical contacts pointing downwards that way it allows any air bubble to find its way into the
brake line not trapping itself in the switch, making the switch useless. I used rubber lined stainless P clips
tony
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big_wasa
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 05:28 PM |
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As above its best to have the switch pointing down. Do a search but I am sure there is an iva problem of using rivnuts for the T pieces. It needs a
locking device.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 06:14 PM |
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Get some more pipe and start again. Mine were either far too short or too long, nothing was the right length. I also routed the rear one over the
diff, underneath just doesn't look right. For the front flexi to copper connection i drilled a hole through the side panel and connected them
through the hole. Yours looks way to far outside the body. Oh and i used p clips aswell riveted on to the chasis.
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 07:42 PM |
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Decision made - I'm off to route a piece of string where I want the pipes to go and then goin the motor factors to get the lengths made up
P clips an rivnuts for the pipe, have a think about how I'm gonna permanently fasten the tees.
Thanks all, collective wisdom really helped - spent most of the day scratching me head (an plums) waiting for inspiration
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 08:15 PM |
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I used rivnuts and ss rubber lined pclips. my splitters are on with larger rivnuts. would be interested in why this would not be considered fixed or
permanent, my panels are riveted (same principle as rivnut) and if that's not considered permanent then surely my floors won't pass
IVA!
link to pics
[Edited on 12/3/12 by loggyboy]
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Poorscousertommy
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 10:42 PM |
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Loggy - cracking install, really tidy mate.. Illustrates exactly why i need to remake mine at custom lengths. What fasteners did you use? I'm
planning on m5 rivnuts into almost identical p clips, but wasn't keen on M5 hex head bolts.
Cheers
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loggyboy
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| posted on 13/3/12 at 08:25 AM |
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EDIT* I used m3 rivnuts as I didnt want to pop mark the chassis with quite large holes at regular intervals - this meant smaller m3 bolts obviously -
l wasn't keen on tiny allen bolts (they had 2.5mm hex so very easy to round off), so went for 5.5mm (head) hex bolts into the rivnuts, but used
some m5 penny washers as the holes in the pclips were about 4-5mm. These seem to be able to apply just right amount of tightness. I'm going to
put some thread lock and marker paint on the T piece bolts to keep IVA man happy.
[Edited on 13/3/12 by loggyboy]
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fimi7
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| posted on 13/3/12 at 09:12 AM |
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One thing to note as you are routing. Keep in mind where you are routing everything else. Example cooling pipes and exhaust. Sometimes its easier to
route the brake line than to change the route of your exhaust or cooling.
After piping mine 100% I started working on my engine and found it was best to just redo it.
--- Ali
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CosKev3
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| posted on 23/3/14 at 09:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Do a search but I am sure there is an iva problem of using rivnuts for the T pieces. It needs a locking device.
About to pipe my car so could do with peoples input on this please
So T pieces need to be bolted to/through the chassis using a nylock etc?
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 23/3/14 at 10:21 PM |
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I think Ash had a problem with his t-piece being rivnutted, and it was mentioned in the mag. But as I recall he said that the inspector wiggled it
and it was loose.
I used a rivnut, with threadlock on the bolt and it's dead firm, the inspector didn't mention it at all. So it'll depend who you
get.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 07:37 AM |
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Ok cheers
Nothing is clear cut with this IVA malarkey! 
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sdh2903
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 07:49 AM |
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Tee pieces need to be fitted with a bolt and nyloc nut, simple , rivnuts won't be accepted for some reason(tester dependant, not worth risking a
fail on something so trivial. Although they are fine to bolt the p clips to. Just use some m4 rivnuts and flanged button head bolts such as these:
M3 M4 M5 M6 M8 A2 STAINLESS HEX SOCKET FLANGED BUTTON HEAD ALLEN BOLTS SCREWS
With regards the rally design ones, they are fine too and will pass Iva just fine. In fact they are probably the most 'OEM' looking
fixings IMO however if you've already bought p clips id use em. If you use small rivnuts such as m3/m4 the holes won't be any bigger as
the rally design ones need quite a big hole.
[Edited on 24/3/14 by sdh2903]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 08:58 AM |
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Long runs of brake pipe are devil to get tidy, the trick particularly with the front to rear to rear line is make it in 2 or even 3 sections and
use a proper pipe joiner union, this is how car manufacturers do it. Female joiner unions are the easiest to use as they use a single convex (bubble)
flair require only a single operation with the flaring tool.
When laying out the pipe run you know in advance any brake pipe will have to be longer than ideal so it is best to plan in advance some
provision where you can bend the pipe into a dog leg to take up some slack
Slip lengths screen-wash tubing or heat shrink tubing over the pip before flare to protect the pipe in areas where it might get rubbed or damage.
It is really best to have your own on car flaring tool and pipe cutter so you can adjust the length of any pipe.
This type of tool is fairly low cost works really well, it you can always re-sell after you have built your car.
BRAKE PIPE FLARING TOOL 3/16"' ON CAR FLARE BY POWERHAND
Simple OEM style plastic pop-in clips are the best to use as unlike PClips they hold the pipe at a stand-off distance from the chassis.
Although a lot of people use it I don't recommend using copper brake pipe proper Kunifer is just as easy to work and not expensive.
[Edited on 24/3/14 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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CosKev3
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 03:11 PM |
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Thanks
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Andy S
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 06:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Simple OEM style plastic pop-in clips are the best to use as unlike PClips they hold the pipe at a stand-off distance from the chassis.
Although a lot of people use it I don't recommend using copper brake pipe proper Kunifer is just as easy to work and not expensive.
[Edited on 24/3/14 by britishtrident]
+1 Cupro Nickel pipes and the plastic push in clips look far more professional. especially when you can get multi clips for running fuel F&R and
brake lines together. Lighter to 
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 06:27 PM |
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Little tip for working out the best route and length of pipe needed is to use a long Bowden outer cable . I keep one at work for just this job.
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nick205
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 07:37 PM |
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My take on the p clips was to use small plastic p clips from RS Components that fit exactly to the outer diameter of the brake pipes. The mounting
hole is just right for a 3.2mm pop rivet, which IMHO is better than keep drilling larger than necessary holes in the chassis for rivnuts. The rivets
are easily drilled out if you need to remove the pipes at a later stage.
Also, on the brake light switch, these work much better in one of the Front brake circuits than in the rear one. If you position it so the contact
piece is uppermost it also makes it easier to bleed and remove any air from the t piece.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 08:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
My take on the p clips was to use small plastic p clips from RS Components that fit exactly to the outer diameter of the brake pipes. The mounting
hole is just right for a 3.2mm pop rivet, which IMHO is better than keep drilling larger than necessary holes in the chassis for rivnuts. The rivets
are easily drilled out if you need to remove the pipes at a later stage.
Also, on the brake light switch, these work much better in one of the Front brake circuits than in the rear one. If you position it so the contact
piece is uppermost it also makes it easier to bleed and remove any air from the t piece.
Defo stick the brake light switch at the top. The raw precut pipes put it nicely at the top
Using m3 rivnuts is only a 4.5mm hole so not too bad. But I suppose the smaller the hole is better anyway you look at it!
Mistral Motorsport
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 08:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Tee pieces need to be fitted with a bolt and nyloc nut, simple , rivnuts won't be accepted for some reason(tester dependant, not worth risking a
fail on something so trivial.
Out of interest, is anyone aware of anyone actually failing on this, apart from the well-publicised one mentioned earlier?
Oh, and another vote for the plastic push in clips, much quicker than riveting or rivnutting in p-clips, especially if you want to remove the lines
later, which isn't unlikely during the build.
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avagolen
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 09:43 PM |
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Hi gents,
As far as I know, all the IVA man needs to see is that the 'T' piece cannot be rotated and hence loosen the bolts.
This is what I have done to prevent said fault happening and yes the lock wire is pulling with a reasonable
force in the correct direction - photo makes it look vertical.
The tab washer is made from a stainless repair washer wrapped over the chassis.
 
Rear_Brake_t_locking
Len.
The Answer for everything, but never the last word....
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