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Author: Subject: Best engine for a BEC?
jonabonospen

posted on 9/9/12 at 11:31 PM Reply With Quote
Best engine for a BEC?

I am looking at BEC's at the moment, wanting to buy one. But what I want to know is what are the best engines for the seven type kits?

Don't think about turbo's or anything. Just straight engines.

I have a real want for a ZX12R engined car for two reasons; one I am a Kawasaki bike fan so fits with that, plus I think I am right in assuming it will give more HP and torque, and therefore performance, over a Fireblade or R1 or ZX9R or similar.

However I see loads of sevens with Blade engines in. Would you be able to tell much difference between a Blade or an R1 or a ZX12R engine?

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RK

posted on 9/9/12 at 11:49 PM Reply With Quote
I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know some bike engines, when in cars, need special sumps, because being mounted sideways (as compared to being in a bike), funny things happen when the oil goes sloshing around. That made me look at the R1 (which I didn't use, but that's another story), which apparently doesn't need anything special. Could be dead wrong again, of course.
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spiderman

posted on 10/9/12 at 12:07 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
I am looking at BEC's at the moment, wanting to buy one. But what I want to know is what are the best engines for the seven type kits?

Don't think about turbo's or anything. Just straight engines.

I have a real want for a ZX12R engined car for two reasons; one I am a Kawasaki bike fan so fits with that, plus I think I am right in assuming it will give more HP and torque, and therefore performance, over a Fireblade or R1 or ZX9R or similar.

However I see loads of sevens with Blade engines in. Would you be able to tell much difference between a Blade or an R1 or a ZX12R engine?


Here is one worth considering, although nothing to do with me.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=174033





Spider

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imp paul

posted on 10/9/12 at 05:54 AM Reply With Quote
hi zx12r engine is the muts nuts and just needs a modded sump and baffle plate and all is good to go its the way forward lol



[Edited on 10/9/12 by imp paul]

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daniel mason

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:10 AM Reply With Quote
ther newer blades are supposerd to be awesome, then you have zzr1440 and busa also






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ReMan

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:26 AM Reply With Quote
"Would you be able to tell much difference between a Blade or an R1 or a ZX12R engine?"

More important can you?. Are you a driving god?

Have you been out in a BEC at all?

My '92 fire blade is still powerful (120hp ish) and quick enough to get me into a whole load of trouble!

5 years on, yes, I'd like a bit more power (and me and the car is a bit heavier than when it was first built), but don't go looking for the max power at the outset just for bragging rights......





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MK9R

posted on 10/9/12 at 07:25 AM Reply With Quote
I know of a complete zx12 package with exhaust for sale if interested.





Cheers Austen

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jonabonospen

posted on 10/9/12 at 07:28 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
I know of a complete zx12 package with exhaust for sale if interested.


I need a car first lol

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40inches

posted on 10/9/12 at 07:33 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
I know of a complete zx12 package with exhaust for sale if interested.


I need a car first lol


Ah! but when you find the car, you will need the engine, chicken and egg syndrome. If you find something that fits at a good price, buy it! Otherwise I can guarantee that when you really need it, you will not be able to find one.






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jossey

posted on 10/9/12 at 07:47 AM Reply With Quote
My thought is the zx9r compared to the zzr1200 is not huge enough to warrant the extra weight n cost n messing with sump etc charges.

My next engine will be the zx9r to replace the zzr1100 when the last 2 die which will reduce the weight by 30kg and I will lose a few horse.





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

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jonabonospen

posted on 10/9/12 at 07:52 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
"Would you be able to tell much difference between a Blade or an R1 or a ZX12R engine?"

More important can you?. Are you a driving god?



I am no "driving god" no. But I have ridden an awful lot of motorbikes of all styles and powers over a number of years, and you can tell a difference between an older Blade and a newer ZZR1400 for example. People say the same sort of thing with bikes, that a 600cc sports bike has "enough" power for anyone, but realistically you want that extra power that the bigger bikes provide as it makes it more enjoyable and easier to ride even if you dont use all of it.

I obviously have a budget I need to work to, but what I just dont want to do is buy an old Blade engined car only to then decide 3 months later I want the full on ZX12R and have to go about either doing an engine swap or selling the car and buying a new one.

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twybrow

posted on 10/9/12 at 09:48 AM Reply With Quote
Whatever engine you put in it, after a while, you will become used to it, and think that more power is the way to go. Having been in your position, I would still say a ZX9/Fireblade pwoered car is the way to go to start with - if you go straight for a ZX12/14/Busa, you have nowhere to go apart from tuning/turboing, and that gets expensive!

Even a ZX9/Fireblade powered car, built correctly (light bits where possible, and driver not 18 stone!) will really fly, and be far faster than you possibly realise. Very few other cars will live with the pace of a well built, well driven BEC.

Have you been out in a BEC yet? That should be a priority. You will realise, the main reason for agoing for the larger engines, is the ability to carry a passenger, and not blunt the performance. The smaller engines dont have the torque, so you tnd to notice the extra weight of a passenger more - that was the biggest change when I did my engine upgrade...

So in summary - get out and try some of these things before you make your mind up about the percieved speed. Buy what you can afford - your car will never be 'finished' so expect that whatever you put in you will always crave a little more! Finally, recognise the cost difference in some of these lumps - ZX12s are becoming rare now, so prices are creeping up, whereas ZX9/Fireblades were so common, they are peanuts to pick up on ebay and replace should you blow one up!

Good luck, and do let us know what you choose...!

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jonabonospen

posted on 10/9/12 at 10:24 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by twybrow

(light bits where possible, and driver not 18 stone!)


Bugger

[Edited on 10/9/12 by jonabonospen]

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maccmike

posted on 10/9/12 at 10:24 AM Reply With Quote
simple answer is;

yes you'll feel the difference.

buy the most powerful and torquey engine you can afford.

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phelpsa

posted on 10/9/12 at 10:36 AM Reply With Quote
Are you in it for the long game or the quick thrills?

If its the quick thrills, buy the biggest, most powerful and lightest you can afford.

If you're looking to build a really fast car, save the money and spend it on a decent chassis. A Fireblade engined Westfield with a well set up chassis will be a much more competent car than an off-the-shelf Busa or ZX12R engined MK for example.

[Edited on 10-9-12 by phelpsa]






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jonabonospen

posted on 10/9/12 at 10:43 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Are you in it for the long game or the quick thrills?

If its the quick thrills, buy the biggest, most powerful and lightest you can afford.

If you're looking to build a really fast car, save the money and spend it on a decent chassis. A Fireblade engined Westfield with a well set up chassis will be a much more competent car than an off-the-shelf Busa or ZX12R engined MK for example.

[Edited on 10-9-12 by phelpsa]


Why is that then? The Westfield chassis are better ?

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phelpsa

posted on 10/9/12 at 11:06 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Are you in it for the long game or the quick thrills?

If its the quick thrills, buy the biggest, most powerful and lightest you can afford.

If you're looking to build a really fast car, save the money and spend it on a decent chassis. A Fireblade engined Westfield with a well set up chassis will be a much more competent car than an off-the-shelf Busa or ZX12R engined MK for example.

[Edited on 10-9-12 by phelpsa]


Why is that then? The Westfield chassis are better ?


As a general rule, my opinion would be yes they are. Having spent a few years competing against them, even a reasonably standard Westfield is a very capable car. The Sylva chassis are also well proven, especially if you can find one with outboard suspension.

Those that keep up with speed events will have seen that two of the fastest Sevens on the scene at the moment are reasonably low budget Westfields with a CBR1000RR engines. A well set up chassis and a driver that knows how to exploit it are definitely replacements for displacement!






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Hellfire

posted on 10/9/12 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
Having built and owned both Fireblade and ZX12R engined MKs, there isn't a huge difference between the two once they're on the move. There is however a difference. The ZX12R is so much easier to drive and much more tractable, due to having more low and mid-range grunt.

The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and seems less affected by additional weight (passenger) and has a better power delivery throughout the entire rev range. Keep the Blade above 6,000rpm though and it is quite a capable engine.

Most manufacturers chassis will need some fine tuning to get them to handle the way you want and to enable you to get the optimum performance from the engine.

Phil






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jonabonospen

posted on 10/9/12 at 11:55 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Having built and owned both Fireblade and ZX12R engined MKs, there isn't a huge difference between the two once they're on the move. There is however a difference. The ZX12R is so much easier to drive and much more tractable, due to having more low and mid-range grunt.

The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and seems less affected by additional weight (passenger) and has a better power delivery throughout the entire rev range. Keep the Blade above 6,000rpm though and it is quite a capable engine.

Most manufacturers chassis will need some fine tuning to get them to handle the way you want and to enable you to get the optimum performance from the engine.

Phil


That is exactly what I was thinking would be the case in my head.

Has anyone got any comparrison with a Mac#1 Worx with the ZX10R engine in ?

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bobinspain

posted on 10/9/12 at 05:57 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Having built and owned both Fireblade and ZX12R engined MKs, there isn't a huge difference between the two once they're on the move. There is however a difference. The ZX12R is so much easier to drive and much more tractable, due to having more low and mid-range grunt.

The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and seems less affected by additional weight (passenger) and has a better power delivery throughout the entire rev range. Keep the Blade above 6,000rpm though and it is quite a capable engine.

Most manufacturers chassis will need some fine tuning to get them to handle the way you want and to enable you to get the optimum performance from the engine.

Phil


That is exactly what I was thinking would be the case in my head.

Has anyone got any comparrison with a Mac#1 Worx with the ZX10R engine in ?





Just my two pen'orth: re' your comment "has anyone-----"

The bec experience is a revelation. I'd never been in one until my gen2 Busa MK arrived in feb this year, (and I've had quick cars).
Chris Dann of carimportinspain who did my road-legal matriculation, imports around 150 cars a year. Acuras, Cobras, 'Vettes and other cars. (He has had plenty of Ferraris too). He said after driving my car, "that's the quickest machine I've ever been in."

Other posters have commented on what I've found to be true. It's not the bhp, but the skill of the driver. Perry MCarthy took me round Brands in a standard Elise 13 years ago and waxed the snot out of cars that, on paper, he should never have got near.

Don't spend your money on BHP. Instead, spend it on attending track days and driving courses. You'll be safer, quicker, more smug and have money left in your wallet.

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PAUL FISHER

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:12 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
Having built and owned both Fireblade and ZX12R engined MKs, there isn't a huge difference between the two once they're on the move. There is however a difference. The ZX12R is so much easier to drive and much more tractable, due to having more low and mid-range grunt.

The difference between the two is more noticeable on the road and with two up on track. The ZX12R is much more driveable and seems less affected by additional weight (passenger) and has a better power delivery throughout the entire rev range. Keep the Blade above 6,000rpm though and it is quite a capable engine.

Most manufacturers chassis will need some fine tuning to get them to handle the way you want and to enable you to get the optimum performance from the engine.

Phil


That is exactly what I was thinking would be the case in my head.

Has anyone got any comparrison with a Mac#1 Worx with the ZX10R engine in ?


Ive had a Indy R with a standard 180bhp 2007 ZX10R fitted, I had no problems keeping with Busa powered and ZX12 powered cars, Ive drove cars with all three engines fitted, there's nothing between them performance wise, it just depends if you prefer a engine that rev's to 13750rpm or 11000 rpm

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:14 PM Reply With Quote
Most will say you must have a Hayabusa, the only option. Those who often leave their armchairs may say that a 1000cc will do the job nicely. Those who actually drive the cars will be perfectly happy with the ZX9. There was a very quick Westfield out in the ASWMC sprint scene, very very quick, and that had a GSXR750!

Acquire whatever comes your way from realistic vendor, and enjoy.

ZX9/R1/Honda are all cheap, cheerful and reliable. Fireblades are particularly difficult (impossible?) to destroy, any vintage. ZX9's are really cheap and solid. R1's tend to eat gearboxes (all years), and/or head gaskets (later years). None of these need dry sumping, but your expensive Hayabusa will do. I'm talking crap here of course, sorry, just my particular experience.

Or do none of these things and insist on a Pinto.

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maccmike

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:19 PM Reply With Quote
Thats a fair comment Bob so my apoliges for disagreeing.
Im a 'reasonable driver.'
Advanced driver, race school, track days, karting, experience of supercars.
At 32 though, no matter how much schooling I do, I aint going to be the next MCarthy, Collins or Hamilton for that matter.

So to the original post - Id still buy the most torquey and powerful engine I could.

[Edited on 10/9/12 by maccmike]

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sdh2903

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:31 PM Reply With Quote
My 99 r1 engine is running around 150bhp (optimistic) max at the crank and after reading loads of posts I was expecting it to have hardly any torque and to be a pain to drive in traffic etc. However it's absolutely fine in fact I find it a doddle and it goes like stink. I probably will upgrade to another engine when I get bored but for now it's plenty.

I won't be getting a busa though, they are pricey and need accusump or dry sump and even then they are prone to go pop, just do a search on here. The modern breed of litre engines, zx10r, cbr1000, gsxr. All kick out similar power and will run reliably with minimal mods, they are half the price too. I would also look at zx12 if you can find one that is.

All in my opinion of course

[Edited on 10/9/12 by sdh2903]






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bobinspain

posted on 10/9/12 at 06:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by maccmike
Thats a fair comment Bob so my apoliges for disagreeing.
Im a 'reasonable driver.'
Advanced driver, race school, track days, karting, experience of supercars.
At 32 though, no matter how much schooling I do, I aint going to be the next MCarthy, Collins or Hamilton for that matter.

So to the original post - Id still buy the most torquey and powerful engine I could.

[Edited on 10/9/12 by maccmike]


Macmike.

You're are the proof of my conjecture: "At 32 no matter ----. I was 52 when Perry Mcarthy showed me how it should be done. (Yes, I'm now 64).
More BHP won't make up for our lack of driving skill. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're buying anything other than bhp,



Just a last thought.: If you were learning to play the guitar and really wanted to be the next Hendrix, Clapton or Knoppfler and found you'd never achieve their levels, would you practice harder or go and buy a more expensive guitar?

[Edited on 11/9/12 by bobinspain]

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