scootz
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:34 AM |
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MNR and Their Infeasibly Large Roll-Bars
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be
lower than that???
LINKY
It's Evolution Baby!
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Slimy38
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:38 AM |
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That's bonkers, I know it's good practise to have it a little above a helmeted head but you could fit a hairmet under that.
For the non-scrubs fans, this is a hairmet...
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:39 AM |
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That doesnt even look like its made from the correct diameter to make it suitably strong. Coupled with the leverage the height would give the ground
if it was struck at speed it would look like it would just fold up!
I can only hope to assume this was just a customer who wanted (insisted) on somthing so fuggly and functionally less safe.
Mistral Motorsport
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:44 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be
lower than that???
LINKY
Perhaps that one was built by a very tall person?
I agree that big cages really spoil the looks of a 7, not an issue for a track car but I doubt I'd choose to have a full cage for a road car.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Perhaps that one was built by a very tall person?
I agree that big cages really spoil the looks of a 7, not an issue for a track car but I doubt I'd choose to have a full cage for a road car.
I did. on I do plan to use it on track, but 90% will be road use. Ignoring the roll over protection, it does and strengh to the cockpit for other
impacts.
Mistral Motorsport
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:47 AM |
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There's a few Mnrs kicking around with tall cages on so I dont think it's a customer one off.
If you look at the roadrunner sr2 I think that looks like a lower sleeker option which looks much better.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
There's a few Mnrs kicking around with tall cages on so I dont think it's a customer one off.
If you read the advert, is says it is!
Mistral Motorsport
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
For me, the MNR is one of the prettier kits... until they go and put those flipping great scaffolding pieces on the back of them!
I know that they're thinking about our safety, but why do they have to be SO much taller than all the other manufacturers?
And then there's this monstrosity... a really nice car with a full cage that can touch the sky! Why oh why? Surely a full cage can be
lower than that???
LINKY
The ad says the original owner was 6ft8 hence the height of the cage. The tube diameter does seem too small, overall it just doesn't look right
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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iank
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:53 AM |
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Procomp goes high at the back and low at the front. Looks much better to my eye. Of course with an approved cage rather than a blue book MSA drawing
complaint cage you can do that kind of thing and still race.
More detailed:
http://www.procomp.co.uk/newimages/detailed_illustrations/n50.jpg
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:55 AM |
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Yes but I guess it's a standard option from mnr because there are a few knocking about.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 09:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Procomp goes high at the back and low at the front. Looks much better to my eye. Of course with an approved cage rather than a blue book MSA drawing
complaint cage you can do that kind of thing and still race.
Thats how mine is too, which I was slightly disapointed with as I wanted mine slightly taller at the front, but RAW didnt quite finish it as my
designs. Fortunately its grown on me now.
Mistral Motorsport
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coozer
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 10:02 AM |
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At MNR when you order a kit, Chris sits you on a chair and measures you from seat base to top of head, then the roll bar height is worked out to
ensure you dont drag your nut along the ground if you flip over..
Its all about safety.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 10:15 AM |
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The blue-book states that you have to set the cage height at 50mm above the height of the drivers helmet, and in such a way that any forward tubes
must go forward without a bend to the highest hard point on the chassis. That is the safety zone that is protected if you go on to your lid.
There are rules about crossing the tubes at the back of the cage to support it, as well as the size of the plates and the tube to plate mounting
rules,
IIRC, the book even talks about what good welding should look like on the cage, and advises you to walk away from bird-shit.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 10:39 AM |
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Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series
2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother
with the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
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RichardK
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 11:15 AM |
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Saying nothing 
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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iank
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 11:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series
2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother
with the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
Maybe people want to avoid ending their days in a wheelchair being fed with a tube and having someone wipe their arse for them?
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 11:33 AM |
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Also, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same
wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by Not Anumber
Frankly i think all this metalwork seriously detracts from the looks of a 7.
Roll over bars and cages are safe and sensible for racing and track use but I think Lotus got the looks pretty much spot on with the road going series
2 and series 3 Super 7 which had no rollover bar and looked much more elgant and purposeful for it.
For a road car there is no requirement to have a roll over bar, it's not compulsory, it's not an MOT requirement so why on earth bother
with the ugly scafolding. It just looks like health and safety gone mad.
Maybe people want to avoid ending their days in a wheelchair being fed with a tube and having someone wipe their arse for them?
Yeah I think common sense says since cars crash on the road and many land on their roof something that prevents you needing to support a 700kg car on
your head would be a good idea, required by an MOT or not. But then you can just live in hope or denial
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PhillipM
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Also, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same
wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
Our entire frame is T45, not cheap though!
Some of these cages look downright scary, what's with all the random bends in the middle of the tubes?!
A cage is only strong as a triangulated structure, same as a chassis, so sticking extra bends in and making it a nice, easily foldable parallelogram
is not exact the best idea...
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sdh2903
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:13 PM |
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I don't think this thread was debating the need for safety I think we are all grown up to accept rollover protection is a neccessity. It was
more about design and 'packaging' to suit the design of the 7, there are many ways to design a safe car without it looking like the car
had crashed into a local scaffolding yard.
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:17 PM |
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£50 a metre trade I was paying, not including the 3 hours time it took us to measure, cut and bend just to get the hoop right.
Saying that, you put an off it in the vice and smack it with a two pound lumper and you can tell the difference, once your hand stops vibrating.
It's the best you can do. Mandated for NASCAR if I'm right. It also needs the right rod for welding properly. Mild rods leave the weld
pool too brittle.
quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Alsoq, find out what quality the steel is. I went for T45, quite expensive and difficult to bend, but great to weld.
I know from my grass-tracking mates that the rules state mild steel cages only, even though they would (if allowed) fit T45 steel cages at the same
wall thickness. T45 is way more strong than mild steel, so for these guys it would mean a weight saving for similar if not more strength.
Our entire frame is T45, not cheap though!
Some of these cages look downright scary, what's with all the random bends in the middle of the tubes?!
A cage is only strong as a triangulated structure, same as a chassis, so sticking extra bends in and making it a nice, easily foldable parallelogram
is not exact the best idea...
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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loggyboy
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PhillipM
Our entire frame is T45, not cheap though!
Some of these cages look downright scary, what's with all the random bends in the middle of the tubes?!
A cage is only strong as a triangulated structure, same as a chassis, so sticking extra bends in and making it a nice, easily foldable parallelogram
is not exact the best idea...
A triange will still collapse on impact if the force is enough. Traingles are great for transmitting intended forces, but a crash can happen at pretty
much any angle and any speed and lots of force, so as long as the bends arent in the key structure (front and rear roll bar) they arent as disasterous
as you may think.
Mistral Motorsport
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scootz
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:31 PM |
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Oops... missed the part about the cage being made for a 6'8" driver. My bad!
That said, the general sentiment regarding the 'normal' height of an MNR's roll-over protection still stands... they're feckin
huge and often spoil the looks of their cars!
It's Evolution Baby!
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dave107
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:53 PM |
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Well mines fine only about 3inch above my head. 
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PhillipM
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 12:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A triange will still collapse on impact if the force is enough. Traingles are great for transmitting intended forces, but a crash can happen at pretty
much any angle and any speed and lots of force, so as long as the bends arent in the key structure (front and rear roll bar) they arent as disasterous
as you may think.
I'll take a roll cage that transmits forces away from me over one that folds at the joints like a hinge any day of the week. Even if part of it
bends or kinks from an impact, if the rest is properly triangulated everywhere it will still prevent the cage folding and transmit force away from the
damaged area.
[Edited on 9/8/13 by PhillipM]
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