Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 12:14 PM |
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Engine choice pinto?
Hi guys i have picked you brains about a zetec fit to my currently pinto 1.8 powered tiger. I know the duratec has correct exhaust exit like pinto etc
but expensive to do. I have a zetec in the garage and have made and fitted a micra alternator and belt is on. Now i have the crazy notion of a pinto
2.0 fast race. It would fit obviously easier and i am told 170bhp with head polish cam and bike carbs realistic??. Does anyone run a pinto in this
power and how does it fair against a 165bhp 2.0 zetec type engine??. Thanks Matt oh and the pinto does sound sweet!
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ianm67
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 12:23 PM |
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170bhp out of a 2.0 Pinto will not be cheap..... I had a HT Racing prepped BVH 2.1 Pinto on twin 45's in a Tiger that I built. It made 128bhp
at the wheels on Tom Aireys rolling road, that equates to about 153bhp at the flywheel.
A 2.0 blacktop Zetec with a free flow exhaust and an aftermarket ECU will make 165bhp at the flywheel without too much trouble and will be a much more
pleasant motor than a highly strung Pinto IMHO......
Always biting off more than I can chew.....
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 12:41 PM |
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a 2.1 pinto is expensive, but from what I've been told they don't make much more power than a 2.0 pinto....
but they do make a fair bit extra torque
the biggest gains on a pinto are going to be in the head / cam - but you don't have to go for big valves strait away
which type of head have you got at the moment ? (i.e. EFI or non-EFI ?)
all the heads have poor port shapes (too big and too sharp a bend), but the EFI heads aren't quite as bad to start with....
your going to need a fairly lumpy cam to get close to that kind of power (which will have an effect on how it behaves on the road)
your also going to need some fairly big carb's to feed it (bigger bike carbs or twin 45's at least) and a decent exhaust setup
btw - I'm building a fairly high spec. 2.1 pinto for mine - but its not the economic route to more power....
[Edited on 5/11/2013 by mcerd1]
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MP3C
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:17 PM |
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My winter project currently is improving my standard 2.0ltr Pinto in my Tiger and am looking for around 150 - 170bhp. I was thinking about changing it
out for a Duratec same as you but I got convinced by Alex (he is on the forum somewhere - omega0684) to keep my pinto and upgrade it. Current parts
for it include stage 3 slightly ported big valve cylinder head with a high torque cam, twin 45 webers and a lightened flywheel. I will also upgrade my
exhaust system a slight bit which should see me to around 160ish at the flywheel but with insane amounts of torque  .
All these parts have come to roughly around £1000 so turned out to be a lot cheaper than the Duratec - and apparently according to a few people the
pinto is a bomb proof engine with a lot more torque than the Zetec so in my opinion sounds more fun
Matt
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whitestu
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:18 PM |
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Why would a Duratec be espensive?
Is that buying the engine or making it run?
Stu
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snapper
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:20 PM |
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Would suggest that 130bhp to 150bhp is more easily and cheaply achieved
2.1 is not necessary and an expense to far
Yor limit is compression with cast pistons and the revs the rods can take
The later unleaded injection head is good for 10bhp
Exhaust manifold 5 to 8
Kent FR32 (or Piper 285) are good road cams that peak at 5800 but will rev to 7500 16bhp
I ran this on a 2.1 with injection head, thin gasket and bike carbs, got 128@ wheels and 135 torques
I have also built a 2.1 with cossy rods big valve head and RL31 cam, this will be (once set up) over 170bhp
Not cheap (bloody expensive) and not as drivable below 3500rpm, should have gone with forged pistons
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:20 PM |
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pinto
Thanks for that guys that was what i was afraid of to be honest. The car is a toy and i like to blast out with mrs etc and want something well
mannered till play time. I have a 1.8 zetec in the garage with 130 cams for it and was looking at nodiz and zx9 carbs or something on those lines. But
was told the pinto could match 150 to 170 but i was a little skeptical. And dont want race engine want a fast road engine. My pinto is a 1.8 so really
a duff before i start it has a cam and is running twin 40s but although not slow not breath taking if you know what i mean. I have been in xe powered
mk and blade powered locost and although the tiger is a little heavier i am looking for a bit nearer the same buzz. The st170 motor i have considered
and duratec although the duratec seems and expensive mod as everything needs changing where the zetec is easier i believe. I do love the pinto but
maybe to squeeze the power levels i am looking for will be expensive and make it a bit highly strung then?. Seems the zetec still the way forward?.
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:25 PM |
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duratec
The duratec seems expensive as everything needs changing and generally everything dearer than the zetec. The zetec fits the type 9 the duartec needs
bell housing ,lower sump dearer on duratec etc etc.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:30 PM |
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I wouldn't spend any money on your 1.8 pinto at all - save it for a 2.0 or a more modern engine 
I really like the 1.8 blacktop zetec in my tin-top, its nice revvy engine that can put a smile on my face - even when its dragging around 1100kg of
tin-top
but I'm guessing you've got a silvertop zetec if its got the 130 cams ? (not that I think they are that different)
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
.....should have gone with forged pistons
I'm guessing you looked at the prices then
<<<< thats my cossie rod + accralite piston combo in my avitar from they days when I had money to spend on toy cars - they are not cheap
that + £80 to take .060" off the top of the piston for the extra length of the rod 
[Edited on 5/11/2013 by mcerd1]
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prawnabie
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:32 PM |
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Speak to Omega0684 on here, he is good with ship engines!
Last I heard he was running a 2.1 pinto with some big power
[Edited on 5/11/13 by prawnabie]
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 01:48 PM |
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engine
thanks guys for all the response and no the 1.8 zetec is a black top mate with the rs1800 cams. I have a modded silvertop sump and windage tray and a
micra alternator fitted not just to decide where to go. When i bought the engine was ment to be a 2.0 from a cougar but turned out there was a nice
big 1.8 on the block and after an argument on the phone to be fair wasnt worth the fuel to take back i got it at a good price and its clean inside.
Then i got the cams and sump and did the alternator and now before shelling out the bigger bucks for flywheels and manifolds crbs etc i am just having
that am i sure moment should i get the 2.0 black top or st170 lump. Spend more on the duratec or go with a 2.0 pinto!. I agree the 1.8 pinto isnt
staying for sure though just wanted to see opinions on a 2.0 pinto lump verses the engines i have mentioned.The 1.8 zetec bogg bros say 155bhp doable
with the cams in and a 2.0 165bhp so not massive changes and they say the 1.8 zetec is a very revvy engine great in a kit.
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MP3C
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 02:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Speak to Omega0684 on here, he is good with ship engines!
Last I heard he was running a 2.1 pinto with some big power
[Edited on 5/11/13 by prawnabie]
+1 he is very good with pintos, he helped advise me on a few key purchases to upgrade mine v.nice guy.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt159888
thanks guys for all the response and no the 1.8 zetec is a black top mate with the rs1800 cams. I have a modded silvertop sump and windage tray and a
micra alternator fitted
sounds like your already half way to getting that 1.8 blacktop fitted - I'd just keep going if I was you
anything you spend on the carb's etc. can be carried over to a 2.0 later if you think its worth it - but the 1.8 won't be far of the mark
anyway so why spend more money on a 2.0
also get yourself down to your local scrapyards and find the donor bits for megajolt - if you can get them all for a good price (say no more than £25
- 30) then megajolt should workout a fair bit cheaper than nodiz, either way the std. zetec coilpack, leads and VR sensor which you should already
have
ps - do you need another flywheel ??
I thought that most folk swapped to the one from a 1.8 zetec (although I could be wrong here....)
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 03:11 PM |
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I went with Snapper's advice and rebuilt my Pinto with an injection head skimmed by 1mm, thinner head gasket and FR32 cam. It hasn't been
near a rolling road and probably wont for a while but it's noticeably more lively than the standard engine even round town. I'm
currently running a downdraught 38/38 (Id' like a bike carb setup when funds will eventually allow) and standard dizzy (Megajolt bought a year
ago but still not fitted).
Lack of covered space to work on the car played a part in deciding to keep with a Pinto.
I briefly wondered about a Duratec but was put off by the cost of ancillaries, bellhousing and generally getting it to fit and run.
A Zetec would have to be number 1 choice for anyone starting with a CVH rather than a Pinto but in my case I figured it would cost marginally less to
rebuild and uprate a Pinto as to do a standard rebuild on a Zetec and pick up everything else i'd need such as exhaust manifold, flywheel and
clutch, shortened sump etc, in order to deliver the same bhp.
For me though it was a clear choice between a mildly modified Pinto or a 1.8 MX5 engine and gearbox.
The latter has much to recommend it and is something I would go for if I sell this car and start on another - cheap to acquire with lots of choice,
easy to fit = mounts and modify propshaft), donor's robust fuel injection and ecu useable, nearly 130 bhp with no modifications, no need to
shorten sump, lots of affordable tuning potential (including Mini turbo).
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 03:46 PM |
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Thanks guys. The flywheel would be a lighter one and drilled to take the pinto type clutch from retro ford keeps the clutch a better feel i am told.
And thanks for the mx5 idea dont complicate it even more lol I dont have the edis unit and the nodiz seemed an easier fitment etc although i havent
had any dealing with either!. I think the 1.8 zetec maybe still the way forward and later date a st170 as i think all will swop over if i go with 38mm
bike carbs or bigger i believe?. I think 150 plus is so much cheaper in the zetec than the others feel a decision nearly made!. Although a mx5
mmmm...........
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jacko
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 04:43 PM |
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My pinto is just over 165 at the flywheel i had to do quite a lot of work to get it
The best / biggest improvement i did was to fit zx9r bike carbs
i also
re-bored to +60 power max pistons
planed the head by 1mm
polished / ported the head
piper cam 285 + vernier adjustable
light flywheel
balanced all i could
If i was starting again i would look at other engines instead of doing all the above
Jacko
[Edited on 5/11/13 by jacko]
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 05:46 PM |
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hi Jacko thanks for that like you say thats a lot of money in the engine. I was looking for an easy fitment but think the zetec is still the way to go
here i think with a tighter budget. Love the Pinto but i guess just a lot of money to get the grunt from such and old engine. Thanks everyone for you
help and advise!
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snapper
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 07:28 PM |
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My Pinto has everything apart from Forged rods and cost £2k
The earlier 130bhp (wheels) one was £800 with carbs and Megajolt
I could make a 130bhp pinto with an injection head, 1mm gasket and some bike carbs and a secondhand cam, still adds to some money
The way I do it is bit by bit that way I don't feel the full pain
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Matt159888
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| posted on 5/11/13 at 09:13 PM |
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Think the zetec option wins here will be a spring job i have most of the bits less carbs and ignition but have all bar flywheel to fit the lump.
Should be a good upgrade
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