woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 08:46 AM |
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Axle, rear diff housing dent advice
I messed up!
I was jacking the rear of the car up from the axle/diff casing and something moved, not 100% sure if it was the car or the jack but the result was
that the car fell to the ground and the jack ended up behind the axle and ripped through the brake pipe. Lucky it wasn't very high otherwise it
could have been a lot worse, fuel tank etc. I thought i'd had a lucky escape.
So last night I replaced the brake pipe and with better lighting I found that what I thought was just paint scraped off from the rear of the axle/diff
housing was actually a dent.
 
Axle1
 
Axle2
I've been pushing the car around since and haven't noticed any odd noises or whines so I'm hoping everything is ok. For comparison -
this is how it used to look, pre f*ck up.
 
Axle Before
As far as what it is - I'm not 100% sure as I bought the car built. I pretty sure it's a Mk2 Escort English axle but I'm sure
I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. The diff casing I think is also original escort mk2.
 
Diff housing
The diff I believe is Quaife LSD based on the advert but I haven't had it apart to confirm this. Ratio will be for a bike engine so expecting
3.38:1 or 3.14:1 although i'm pretty sure this isn't relevant.
I found this image online which summaries my worst fear - the dent is in exactly the worst place to potentially foul the main bevel gear.
 
Diff Open - not mine
I guess the best thing to do would be take it all off and have a look and persuade (hammer) it out from the inside but I don't have a lot of
time and am on the Blyton trackday next Friday. I should say the car isn't road legal so i can't take it out easy to check for whines
(even if i thought that was a good idea).
Does anyone have any opinions/advice on this?
Thanks
Chris
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snakebelly
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 08:58 AM |
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If its not leaking and nothing is touching the inside of the dent then put it back on and slap some paint over the dent. If you start beating on it
off the casing you may distort it and make it difficult to get a seal when you put it back on.
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snakebelly
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 08:59 AM |
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To check there is no contact jack the back up and get someone to turn a wheel whilst you hold your hand on the dent even at low rpm if its touching
you'll feel it.
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40inches
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:00 AM |
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It will either foul or not, nothing inside the diff can move laterally.
Lift it just off the ground on axle stands, chock the front wheels, and turn the wheels by hand.
If it is fouling you will soon know. If it seems ok start it up and put it in gear to double check.
Not quick enough
[Edited on 21-3-14 by 40inches]
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:04 AM |
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Great, Thanks guys.
I'll jack it up and test. I'll be a bit more careful jacking this time :-)
Fingers crossed
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benchmark51
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:05 AM |
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For your own peace of mind 1/2 shafts out, prop off, diff out. Bang Bang job done. Oily, smelly but worth it.
Or ignore it and worry?
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peter030371
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benchmark51
For your own peace of mind 1/2 shafts out, prop off, diff out. Bang Bang job done. Oily, smelly but worth it.
Or ignore it and worry?
As he said. With practice taking the diff out of my live axle'd Striker and re-fitting it is a 1-2 hour job 
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:42 AM |
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Ok, so that's two votes for peace of mind - take it out and properly check, and two votes for quick check for fouling whilst on jacks. Makes
sense to do the fouling check first and then if still concerned, take the more drastic action.
If I do take it all out, does anyone have any information on parts I might need. I'm not even sure what diff oil I should use (track use only).
Are there any retaining clips or similar that might snap on removal, or gaskets, bearings etc that make sense to replace while it's open.
I'm a bit concerned i'll open it all up and then not be able to put it back together for some reason. I'll see if i can pick up a
haynes manual for the escort (75-80) as that will help too i guess.
I haven't undertaken anything like this before so it's a bit worrying - but that said i bought this car to learn this stuff on.
Cheers
Chris
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daveb666
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 11:02 AM |
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Personally I'm all for the jack the wheels and listen for a noise.
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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peter030371
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 11:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock
Ok, so that's two votes for peace of mind - take it out and properly check, and two votes for quick check for fouling whilst on jacks. Makes
sense to do the fouling check first and then if still concerned, take the more drastic action.
If I do take it all out, does anyone have any information on parts I might need. I'm not even sure what diff oil I should use (track use only).
Are there any retaining clips or similar that might snap on removal, or gaskets, bearings etc that make sense to replace while it's open.
I'm a bit concerned i'll open it all up and then not be able to put it back together for some reason. I'll see if i can pick up a
haynes manual for the escort (75-80) as that will help too i guess.
I haven't undertaken anything like this before so it's a bit worrying - but that said i bought this car to learn this stuff on.
Cheers
Chris
At worst you would need some fresh oil (Quaife recommend hypoid 90 or 75W90 ) and maybe a £7 diff gasket although I have been able to re-use the same
gasket several times with no issues.
Whilst the diff is out you will also be able to check its condition and if it really is an ATB
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owelly
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 12:11 PM |
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+1 for lifting the wheels and spinning the propshaft. It's very unlikely that the cover will have dented enough to remain in contact with the
crown wheel. Even if it clattered the c/w when the jack twatted it, it will have sprung back a bit.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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DW100
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 12:42 PM |
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Back when we used to run a National Hot Rod we used to change diff ratios for different tracks or even weather conditions. I used to be so practised I
could change a English axle diff in the 15 mins between races.
Having said that it doesn't look like it's been hit in far enough to do much damage.
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 12:59 PM |
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That's quick - it takes me longer than that to get the car out and jack it up :-)
I've ordered diff oil (1L - hope that's enough), and a new gasket ( £2.50 from here:
gasket ). I've also ordered a new plug as i can imagine
it might be a pint to get out if it's been in a while.
My plan is to check it on axle stands over the weekend and if all is Ok i'll leave it at that for now. But I'll take all the bits and
tolls with me to Blyton and if there are any issues i can try and fix it there during the day.
If all is well, then I'll wait until I have some spare time and open it up anyway to give it all the once over, confirm the diff is a Quaife ATB
and what ratio etc. Then put it back together with nice fresh oil too. At this point I can also check all bearings are running smoothly etc and
generally give it a bit of TLC.
Thanks again for all the advice
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DW100
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 01:14 PM |
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Procedure was,
Jack up under the center of the diff, then let it down on axle stands on either end of the axle.
In underneath, undo the 4 prop bolts and slide the prop forward.
Oil catch tray under center of diff and undo the bolts around the diff housing, pull diff housing forward slightly on the studs and start draining.
Remove the wheels and brake drums
Undo the 4 bearing retainer bolts each side through the half shaft flange. (At this point the back plate will be floating, we used to modify them by
drilling and tapping through the back plate and into the flange on the end of the axle and retain with some small countersunk screws)
Slide hammer to pull half shafts out each side
Then lift diff out underneath
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DW100
Procedure was,
Jack up under the center of the diff, then let it down on axle stands on either end of the axle.
In underneath, undo the 4 prop bolts and slide the prop forward.
Oil catch tray under center of diff and undo the bolts around the diff housing, pull diff housing forward slightly on the studs and start draining.
Remove the wheels and brake drums
Undo the 4 bearing retainer bolts each side through the half shaft flange. (At this point the back plate will be floating, we used to modify them by
drilling and tapping through the back plate and into the flange on the end of the axle and retain with some small countersunk screws)
Slide hammer to pull half shafts out each side
Then lift diff out underneath
Great, thanks for the process. I will need to get myself a slide hammer too then - didn't think of that earlier. I'm not too clear on your
modification but i have a feeling it will make more sense when i actually do it.
Thanks again
Chris
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DW100
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 01:56 PM |
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Modification only really needed if you are doing it regularly and in a hurry. If not then pull the half shafts out and put some of the retaining bolts
back in the stop the backplate pulling on the brake pipe.
[Edited on 21/3/14 by DW100]
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 01:59 PM |
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Over here in the colonies the auto parts suppliers rent the slide hammer, give it a try.
As said my race Anglia rear axle was checked and gear ratios checked regularly.
Nothing to fear until you start playing with the gears and bearings in the third member.
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owelly
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 03:30 PM |
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I'll be bringing plenty of tools to Blyton and hopefully by Friday, my new huge trailer will have a pair of ramps hanging off the back. Ideal
for accessing a diff!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 03:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Canada EH!
Over here in the colonies the auto parts suppliers rent the slide hammer, give it a try.
As said my race Anglia rear axle was checked and gear ratios checked regularly.
Nothing to fear until you start playing with the gears and bearings in the third member.
Interesting idea. There does seem to be a big range in prices for slide hammers. Will do some reading up on what i might need as a lot of the cheaper
ones talk about dent pulling. It might be best to hire a better one.
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woodstock
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I'll be bringing plenty of tools to Blyton and hopefully by Friday, my new huge trailer will have a pair of ramps hanging off the back. Ideal
for accessing a diff!
Hopefully I won't need it but if there are problems I may be on the lookout for you :-)
I'm planning to bring quite a bit of stuff to cover most things but not having built the car I'm still working out what tools i need.
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DW100
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 04:47 PM |
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If you are only going to be using it occasionally then something like this will be fine,
New Comprehensive 16PC Axle Slide Hammer Dent Panel Puller Set Garage Car Tool | eBay
ew Comprehensive 16PC Axle Slide Hammer Dent Panel Puller Set Garage Car Tool
Its the foot bit that bolts onto the wheel studs that it important. Can't remember which but one side was always tighter than the other.
Machining tolerances weren't great and sometimes they will pull out by hand. I've seen it done by putting the drum on backwards an
whacking it with a lump hammer. On the I've also been there and they refuse to come out with a big slide hammer on them.
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ashg
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 08:57 PM |
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tack a nut to the outside of the casing with a welder in the middle of the dent then screw a slide hammer into the nut thread and proceed to tap
outwards. job done!
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:10 PM |
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If your local ? I Have the tool for the job, half shaft puller that is. ..
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Thailoz
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 11:09 PM |
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As stated above if it dont leak and there are no noises when turning the wheels then it would be fine.
when checking for noise put it on axle stands.
It may sound a dumb Question to you but to others it may be an eureka moment
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woodstock
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 09:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DW100
If you are only going to be using it occasionally then something like this will be fine,
New Comprehensive 16PC Axle Slide Hammer Dent Panel Puller Set Garage Car Tool | eBay
ew Comprehensive 16PC Axle Slide Hammer Dent Panel Puller Set Garage Car Tool
Its the foot bit that bolts onto the wheel studs that it important. Can't remember which but one side was always tighter than the other.
Machining tolerances weren't great and sometimes they will pull out by hand. I've seen it done by putting the drum on backwards an
whacking it with a lump hammer. On the I've also been there and they refuse to come out with a big slide hammer on them.
Thanks, I ordered one of these on Friday night and it should turn up today. That means I've got everything i need now to do the job.
quote:
Originally posted by ashg
tack a nut to the outside of the casing with a welder in the middle of the dent then screw a slide hammer into the nut thread and proceed to tap
outwards. job done!
This is a great idea, thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
If your local ? I Have the tool for the job, half shaft puller that is. ..
Thank you, i really appreciate the offer. I ordered one on friday though so i have one now.
quote:
Originally posted by Thailoz
As stated above if it dont leak and there are no noises when turning the wheels then it would be fine.
when checking for noise put it on axle stands.
Thanks, I jacked it up, put it on stands and checked this last night. Everything moves smoothly without any odd sounds which is great so I think
i've got away with it. I'm going to weld a nut on and try and pull it out a bit with a slide hammer but have prepared for the worst for
Blyton and will go with slide hammer, oil, gasket etc just in case.
Thanks to everyone for all the advice
Chris
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