Duratec Engine Swap Thread

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davidimurray

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posted on 27/7/14 at 04:41 PM

Duratec Engine Swap Thread

So started collecting bits a couple of months ago for this, but have only just got around to starting a thread - actual swap won't be until winter so this is going to be a long one!

My Haynes Roadster currently has an 1800 Pinto - this was a conscious decision and allowed me to use a single donor and get an age related plate so no need for a cat in future. Car has been on the road for 7 months now and is great fun, but feels a little underpowered. At a guess, the car must be somewhere around 85-100bhp at present.

The Plan

I looked at various options for the swap, I wanted something that would be tuneable in future and would reach 200bhp with some work. Considered Zetecs etc, but the exhaust/intake would be opposite to what I have now so while I might save money on bellhousings, I would need a whole new exhaust. So the challenge is to build a 'cheap' Duratec - I would be more than happy with 150bhp to start as that would be a good hike over the Pinto. The Pinto is running a Megajolt and ZX6R carbs, with a zx6r fuel pump so the plan is to use these on the Duratec. Budget - well always a tough one - I would like to think sub £1k for the swap - everyone says it is not possible - am I a fool - we will see what evolves!

Current Status
Collecting bits started a couple of months ago -

All started with a Bellhousing and slave cylinder on ebay - £200 for both. Had planned on going with a cable clutch, but when I looked at it I would need a different clutch arm etc and with my discount bell/hyd slave the cost would be about the same.

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Also picked up an ST150 Starter

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To be continued .....

ali f27

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posted on 27/7/14 at 06:05 PM

Hi good luck with the build i had 1.8 pinto and have gone duratec went fuel injection and bodies and when i think about it thats were most of the money is so good luck with it and lets see how cheap you can do it.
Cheers ALI

davidimurray

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posted on 27/7/14 at 06:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Hi good luck with the build i had 1.8 pinto and have gone duratec went fuel injection and bodies and when i think about it thats were most of the money is so good luck with it and lets see how cheap you can do it.
Cheers ALI

Cheers Ali - how was the difference between the pinto and Duratec?

When I get on my other PC will update with some costs.

davidimurray

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posted on 27/7/14 at 07:00 PM

Picked up a new VCK726 clutch - from one of the older mondeos

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Also picked up an exhaust manifold plate from a forum member -

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Then onto the engine. I had followed various engines on ebay for a while. Spotted one that was up for £250 - from a 2001 Mondeo that had failed MOT on brake lines - car had done about 80k miles. A few hours before the auction ended I decided to make the guy a cheeky offer - he was never going to accept it - £140 - imagine my surprise when he accepted the offer! I decided worse case I have a mock-up engine and spares - but no reason why she shouldn't be fine. So the next day I found myself in an industrial estate in Wolverhampton. Turns out the guy ran a body shop and did banger racing in his spare time - he decided the mondeo was too good to wreck so was parting it out.

Picked it up in the back of the ZR

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He had left loads of bits on it so I started stripping the bits off
Before -

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After

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big-vee-twin

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posted on 27/7/14 at 08:11 PM

Make sure you put a bolt in your bell like pick below, stops the layshaft falling out

[img]

Layshaft retaining bolt [/img]

[Edited on 27/7/14 by big-vee-twin]

Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016

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ali f27

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posted on 27/7/14 at 08:42 PM

i would advise a strip and check because i was getting hard up budget wise i put mine in un checked and it burn oil ran like a bag of spanners etc when i took it back out and stripped it bores were good but rings were blocked with gunge and coke so i hone the bores cleaned it and fitted new rings etc runs perfect now should have done it first be careful buying parts make sure bellhousing will work with clutch etc and in answer to the other question i doubled my bhp so imagine the differance i was all over the pinto but have to have my wits about me now on the road anyways.
Was going to put high com pistons and steel rod cams etc this winter but think the extra pwer would spoil it as a road car.
We also have a 2.3 durtec in our hillclimb car wins when ever mark drives i am getting a bit old i think love the engine but it would be to much for a road car.
Big v twin helped me alot when i was building
Cheers Ali

davidimurray

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posted on 27/7/14 at 09:43 PM

Thanks big-vee-twin - that's on my list of reminders, along with the crank shaft end bearing.

Ali- I'm torn as to whether to crack it open or not. Out of interest how much did sorting the rings cost you? I'm guessing head gasket and ring set - do you have to change the head bolts?

Out of interest have either of you done a compression test or know what sort of reading you should get? Was thinking of doing a cold compression test.

Cheers

Dave

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posted on 28/7/14 at 07:25 PM

I picked up an ST150 flywheel - it was described as having a light covering of surface rust, looked terrible from the pics, but seller assured me it would clean up - worth a punt for £20 and it came with all the bolts.

Here it is before cleaning up and the VCK 726 clutch

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Now when fitting the clutch - it wouldn't fit over the dowels - I had expected this so simply opened up the holes a fraction of a mm and it all fitted nicely.
Before

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After

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Decided it was time for a quick test fit -

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Then on with the bellhousing and starter

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The slave needed to be compressed about 20mm to get the bellhousing on so fingers crossed this combo will work. I believe the bellhousing is from Retroford and has no spacer behind the slave like most others.

Whipped the cam cover off to have a look - everything looks fine under there. The engine oil was relatively clean, water was spotless and it even had Iridium plugs fitted!

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Then it was onto the engine stand and to meet it's future-

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And fitted the EGR blanking plate - no fancy motorsport plates - just a £3 laser cut plate from ebay.

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posted on 28/7/14 at 07:35 PM

Decided to get the bits for a sump laser cut and the inlet manifold plate. Had a few prices -£190, £160 etc all ex vat then contacted a place called Doncaster Laser Services -£65 ex vat in delivery.

Seemed a great price so decided to take the opportunity to also get some engine mount plates and some bits for a DIY water rail cut. Cue lots of paper prototypes and Mrs M cutting them out for me and after 4 or 5 iterations we were there. Added the extra items and price went down by £1.30

So in the end - Total cost inc vat and delivery was £76 - that's for sump, inlet flange, engine mounts and water rail bits.

After TNT tried to lose them - got my hands on them on sat - 4 days after paying!

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Also picked up some Landrover engine mounts -

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And would you believe the cheapest place to buy a mechanical thermostat is from Caterham!

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Kghaas

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posted on 6/8/14 at 09:23 PM

"sub 1k..."
Since you are reusing your megaJ and bike bits it might be possible, but my own experience tells me different...

I had an xflow and converted to Duratec last year. My total came to about 2.5k, All stuff is more expensive here in Norway, but still.

I found all the small parts really added up. My biggest issue was with fitting the cluch slave, but then again I also did a tranny swap at the same time..
You can see my thread over at Pistoanheads: Lotus Seven S4

As for the carbs and megajolt. Don't you think you are loosing a bit of bhp here? Any thoughts on this?
I used GSXR throttles and Microsquirt. Easy, reliable and easy to tune. Even fun to learn

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posted on 6/8/14 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kghaas
"sub 1k..."
Since you are reusing your megaJ and bike bits it might be possible, but my own experience tells me different...

I had an xflow and converted to Duratec last year. My total came to about 2.5k, All stuff is more expensive here in Norway, but still.

I found all the small parts really added up. My biggest issue was with fitting the cluch slave, but then again I also did a tranny swap at the same time..
You can see my thread over at Pistoanheads: Lotus Seven S4

As for the carbs and megajolt. Don't you think you are loosing a bit of bhp here? Any thoughts on this?
I used GSXR throttles and Microsquirt. Easy, reliable and easy to tune. Even fun to learn

Thanks Kghass - I will have a good read of your thread.

In terms of carbs and power, yes this setup won't give me the full potential of the engine so I will be down on BHP - I have heard of a Zetec running 176bhp on zx6r carbs and fuel pump. If I can get 150bhp from this setup, then that will be 1.5x the current power I have. Obviously not to the full engine capacity but a good increase.

Changing over to throttle bodies and fuel injection would probably give me another 30-60bhp, but I would need an ECU, throttle bodies, new fuel pump and either a new tank or swirl pot- add this up and it will cost another £700ish to do this - almost doubling my budget!

Instead I will save a fuel injection upgrade for next winter.

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posted on 7/8/14 at 08:14 PM

Sounds like a good plan.
150bhp should still be fun.

I guess I am at 160 at the moment. With proper exhaust, velocity stacs and raising the redline i guess I will be getting about 180 but that is the future

Good luck on your project.

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posted on 7/8/14 at 09:31 PM

should easily get above 150 a silvertop zetec can do 165 on carbs set up correctly

Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone

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posted on 3/10/14 at 10:00 PM

Time for an update - Had a crazy couple of months at work that stopped progress but just had a couple of weeks off so got back on the engine work.

Treated myself to a nice little 45A alternator

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Then turned my attention to cleaning up the engine - first removing some of the gunk around the outside with some degreaser. Then attacked the block with some wire wheels.

Half way through one side

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And finished

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Having decided to strip the engine - next job was to fit the flywheel and make a locking tool so I could remove the crank pulley

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Then the timing tools in, lock the flywheel and off with the front pulley and cover

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Off with the cam caps

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And out with the cams

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All the buckets/followers removed and positions/thickness recorded and then off with the head

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Lots of oily gunk / coke around, but all looked the same across all the cylinders. You could still see the original honing marks on the cylinder bores.

Then I moved onto removing the piston and con rods.

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The crank looked good and the pistons were generally good but the rings were gummed up and the oil control rings were stuck on a couple of pistons.

Now as it happens I had these in my back pocket

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Picked up from an engine builder - stripped from a brand new crate Duratec - only £39 for the set.

Luckily all the piston sizes matched up with the grades I had fitted, so the only question was on the crank/big end fit, so onto fitting and out with the Plastigauge

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And the good news all were within spec when fitted

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Looking at the tensioner, it was using 7 of the available 9 teeth for adjustment. The guides had some wear at the ends and some pitting in a couple of places. So with the engine so far stripped I decided to bite the bullet and change all the timing gear as well.

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Machined some injector blanking plugs for the head.

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Back to the head, I stripped all valves and gave the exhaust passages a decoke and a general cleanup.

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Before I started valve lapping, I fancied a bit of fabrication so moved onto the sump.

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Having a CNC mill also gives me the chance to do a bit of multitasking while I get on with other jobs. So I spent a few evenings designing an oil filter adaptor and set about machining it.

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davidimurray

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posted on 4/10/14 at 10:09 PM

Just about finished the oil filter adaptor - just needs a clean up and drilling for the oil pressure sensor

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ceebmoj

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posted on 5/10/14 at 07:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by davidimurray
Machined some injector blanking plugs for the head.

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Great thread. Could I convince you to make me a set of injector plugs?

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posted on 5/10/14 at 09:10 PM

Got a couple of hours in the garage this afternoon so did some more work on the sump. Started by bending the bottom plate to fit and tacking it up.

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Then a test fit onto the engine

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Comparison between the original and new sump

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Got the outer platework all welded up.

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Machined up a boss for the sump plug to reuse the original Mondeo item and tacked it in - just need to fully weld then fit the internal baffles next.

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posted on 29/10/14 at 06:17 PM

Hi just wondered how you were coming on

davidimurray

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posted on 29/10/14 at 09:41 PM

Sump is all done except for the dipstick tube, waiting to get the engine together before I finalise the position. Head has been fully stripped, cleaned and decoked. Valves have all been lapped in and reassembled with new valve seals - just working out which new followers I need to buy at the moment. Front cover has had the mount machined off, cleaned and painted, as have the rocker cover and front pulley. Fitted the new oil pump chain, gears and tensioner tonight complete with diamond washer.

Must do a proper update sometime with photos.

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posted on 3/11/14 at 09:32 PM

Update time

So I finished welding up the sump, then added the gated baffles

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Then finished it off with the windage plate. Still need to add the dipstick but will need to fit it to the engine first to work out the best position.

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Then it was onto the head, stripped all the valves and valve seals, then decided to lap all the valves in - a slow and tedious process

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In between lapping valves, I made a start on cleaning the front cover and then onto the mill to remove the front engine mount.

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And drilled the oil filter adaptor to take the standard ford oil pressure switch

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posted on 3/11/14 at 10:06 PM

After the valve lapping, I cleaned up the gasket faces and then put the head in the dishwasher to get it nice clean.

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Then I fitted all new valve seals

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Then all the valves were refitted

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I carefully put all the buckets back in their original positions, refitted the cams and then checked the valve clearances. Inlets were pretty good but almost all the exhaust were out, which is not surprising considering the amount of lapping required. I popped the figures into the commonly use spreadsheet, and with some juggling of buckets I only needed to buy 4 new buckets - these are on order with Burtons.

I had decided to change all the timing gear as a precaution. So bought a kit with everything in. Started on the oil pump drive. Also bought a new crank bolt and diamond washers, surprisingly Caterham were the cheapest supplier.

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Removed the crankcase oil breather, drilled out the bottom of the elbow and released the little valve inside.

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Decided to move the coilpack under the inlet.

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Refitted the cylinder head.

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And had a quick mock up with all the bits fitted on the inlet side

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Been busy painting as well.

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posted on 4/11/14 at 11:02 PM

Well - I can actually say I have a bit of Cosworth in my engine - valve followers/buckets arrived today.

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That meant that I could the exhaust cam back in and fit the new timing chain.

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posted on 10/11/14 at 08:52 PM

Been busy doing some more work - made up an inlet manifold to suit the zx6r carbs - was quite a fabrication challenge!

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Then made some brackets to hold my little 45A alternator. Surprised to discover that I couldn't copy the cosworth kit as the block casting is different and there is a lug missing compared to later engines.

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posted on 10/11/14 at 09:29 PM

Alternator install looks very good. Do you have any more details i.e. Which alternator and do you have a sketch of the brackets?

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posted on 11/11/14 at 10:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ceebmoj
Alternator install looks very good. Do you have any more details i.e. Which alternator and do you have a sketch of the brackets?

This is the alternator

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Sketch of top bracket

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Sketch Of Bottom Bracket

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