JoelP
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| posted on 19/11/04 at 11:01 PM |
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bars for running gears on
what sort of material should be used to make the shafts for gears to be mounted on? is it best to make them on a lathe or can they be bought with a
suitable finish?bearings and gears i can work out, but not what goes between them. any help appreciated. the planned application is a 3 shaft, 3 cog
transfer box. cheers.
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Wadders
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| posted on 19/11/04 at 11:26 PM |
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Try this link, you mad inventive dude.]
Originally posted by JoelP
what sort of material should be used to make the shafts for gears to be mounted on? is it best to make them on a lathe or can they be bought with a
suitable finish?bearings and gears i can work out, but not what goes between them. any help appreciated. the planned application is a 3 shaft, 3 cog
transfer box. cheers.
http://www.timken.com/industries/torrington/products/needle/planetary.asp
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/11/04 at 05:15 PM |
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cheers al.
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andyps
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| posted on 22/11/04 at 01:23 PM |
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As the link says, you would typically want a hardened surface to mount them on. Not sure who would sell those Timken/Torrington bits - try someone
like BSL, theyhave a branch in Leeds and are a big distributor for Timken products.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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JoelP
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| posted on 22/11/04 at 07:29 PM |
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my new line of thought is to get the gear makers to make them with the shafts 'built in', so to speak. Seems easier than me welding them
and distorting it all. next, i need to work out how to make the output shaft take a plate like the diff flange. splined shaft seems easier, ideally
the same dimensions as the ones in a sierra diff. Really should take a diff apart and see how the flange connects up to it...
any idea where the BSL branch is in leeds? cheers.
[Edited on 22/11/04 by JoelP]
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andyps
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| posted on 22/11/04 at 11:02 PM |
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Used to be on Parkside Lane Industrial Estate, off Dewsbury Road.
For getting gears made, not sure if they do them, but try HB Precision Engineering or HB Bearings in Honley near Huddersfield. Excellent quality and
specialise in making one offs.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 04:10 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
my new line of thought is to get the gear makers to make them with the shafts 'built in', so to speak. Seems easier than me welding them
and distorting it all. next, i need to work out how to make the output shaft take a plate like the diff flange. splined shaft seems easier, ideally
the same dimensions as the ones in a sierra diff. Really should take a diff apart and see how the flange connects up to it...
JoelP, wtf are you up to? Anything the rest of us can help with? My needle went into the red when I read the words weld, shaft, flange and diff.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 08:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
JoelP, wtf are you up to? Anything the rest of us can help with? My needle went into the red when I read the words weld, shaft, flange and diff.
 im pondering the pair of gears used at the front of the twin bike engined setup. the gears need to be in a housing, dont they, for lubrication. so
really, im trying to make a box with two cogs in it, with an input that can link to a bike output shaft, and an output that can be linked to the jack
shaft, which will actually be a modded sierra propshaft. any suggestions amigo?!
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 12:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
im pondering the pair of gears used at the front of the twin bike engined setup. the gears need to be in a housing, dont they, for lubrication. so
really, im trying to make a box with two cogs in it, with an input that can link to a bike output shaft, and an output that can be linked to the jack
shaft, which will actually be a modded sierra propshaft. any suggestions amigo?!
Aaaaaah! The bestest way would be to mill a replacement side cover from AL billet for the RH bike engine that would contain a gear on the output shaft
of the engine, which would mesh with a second gear with a flange sticking out of either side.
The forward facing flange would hold a sprocket that would be hooked up to the LH engine's output sprocket. The rearwards facing flange would
hook up to the prop shaft.
How many do you want?
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 07:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
The forward facing flange would hold a sprocket that would be hooked up to the LH engine's output sprocket. The rearwards facing flange would
hook up to the prop shaft.
this is similar to how i imagined it, but i didnt have a forward facing sprocket in my plan. Instead, the n/s engine (the one with the chain drive)
would link up to a sprocket on the diff flange, at the opposite end of the prop to where the gears are. Hence, the engines would be side by side. Is
this what you mean, or would you have the n/s engine further forward?
as for how many do i want, loads! do you know if bike output shafts have a common size?
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 08:41 PM |
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ps, in my scheme both engines are in the back. just incase you are refering to a front engined vehicle.
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
The forward facing flange would hold a sprocket that would be hooked up to the LH engine's output sprocket. The rearwards facing flange would
hook up to the prop shaft.
this is similar to how i imagined it, but i didnt have a forward facing sprocket in my plan. Instead, the n/s engine (the one with the chain drive)
would link up to a sprocket on the diff flange, at the opposite end of the prop to where the gears are. Hence, the engines would be side by side. Is
this what you mean, or would you have the n/s engine further forward?
as for how many do i want, loads! do you know if bike output shafts have a common size?
I'm sorry, I'm confused again. How would the N/S engine directly drive the diff? The sprocket would be nowhere near the diff and would
require another separate shaft and an additional three sprockets.
Unfortunately, most output shafts are different. Occasionally there are common configurations across different makes, but they're rare.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 08:51 PM |
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im going to draw a piccy! another notoriously bad ms paint one im afraid... gimme two mins!
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 08:58 PM |
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right then. the sprockets are in red, the gears are in blue! the actual box around the gears is missing for clarity.
Image deleted by owner
really hope that makes sense!...
[Edited on 23/11/04 by JoelP]
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 09:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
right then. the sprockets are in red, the gears are in blue! the actual box around the gears is missing for clarity.
Image deleted by owner
I would get that RH axle looked at, it looks a bit dodgy.
It all makes sense now. I didn't read your previous post properly and was confusing myself.
I can't imediately think of another method of creating the gear drive without using a potentially expensive casing. The gears would be turning
too fast to just have an ocassional dollop of grease applied.
The casing wouldn't necessarily have to be attached to the RH engine, in stead, it could be bolted to the chassis and the RH gear could engage
the RH engine's output shaft with a cush drive.
The casing would replace a separate front bearing as in your drawing.
The LH engine would be better driving a sprocket mounted directly on the diff rather than on the prop shaft.
But apart from that, it sounds like a runner.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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krlthms
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 09:33 PM |
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Why not use the arrangement and transfer box used by this guy:
http://www.just-the-one.net/index.html
Of course, you will have to have both engines pointing the same way, but in logitudinal arrangement as you have them. The box will also provide you
with 6 reverse gears. Could be useful for driving in downtown Baghdad!
Personally , I cn't figure out how the reverse works. Could any of the "seniors" explain please?
Cheers
Karl
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paulf
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 09:36 PM |
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I seem to remember the Citroen bX i used to have had a transfer from engine to gearbox using something similiar, IE three gears in a casing that
bolted to the end of the gearbox and transfere the drive .
Maybe it would be worth looking at?
Ill get the haynes book later and have a look.
Paul
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 09:38 PM |
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im not a senior, but i was looking at that box the other day. basically, to reverse it simply links the two cogs together. i guess you knew that
bit... really simple. obviously no syncro required cos nothing is moving as you engage reverse.
that transfer box is designed for a front engine car. to use it in a middy, you would need the engines in front of eachother. the prop from the front
engine comes down the side of the rear engine, into the box. to have them side by side, you would need to make the box MUCH wider, and if you're
making the full shmia, you may as well make it how you want it!
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 09:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
I would get that RH axle looked at, it looks a bit dodgy.
lol... i need to get to grips with a proper cad program...
quote:
It all makes sense now. I didn't read your previous post properly and was confusing myself.
I can't imediately think of another method of creating the gear drive without using a potentially expensive casing. The gears would be turning
too fast to just have an ocassional dollop of grease applied.
The casing wouldn't necessarily have to be attached to the RH engine, in stead, it could be bolted to the chassis and the RH gear could engage
the RH engine's output shaft with a cush drive.
i was thinking of getting the front and back plate cut from 10mm plate, with the holes in to hold the bearings. then i would get some more 10mm plates
to make the sides of the box. hence i also need to learn to tap holes too...
oil would be either splashing, or more likely a pump scavanged from an engine. maybe a cooler too.
quote:
The casing would replace a separate front bearing as in your drawing.
good point. firmly bolt the box down, and have the prop start here.
quote:
The LH engine would be better driving a sprocket mounted directly on the diff rather than on the prop shaft.
But apart from that, it sounds like a runner.
quite right. just a shame that the standard sprocket is smaller than a sierra diff flange, makes it a bit of a twat to get together. i might just buy
a spare sprocket and chain, and squeeze it in. is it possible to change the length of a bike chain?
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paulf
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 10:04 PM |
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Just looked at the BX manual and there is a transfer box with three gears and a coverplate , one shaft is the input shaft on which the clutch slides,
the other is the input to gearbox and both are attached to the gears. There is an idler gear on its own stub shaft between.The whole assembly attaches
on the end of the bell housing and is sealed with a cover plate.
Maybe two of the main castings could be utilised back to back with a little machining and some spacers to retain the bearings. This would leave two
well supported shafts to join up elswhere.
Paul.
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 10:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
i was thinking of getting the front and back plate cut from 10mm plate, with the holes in to hold the bearings. then i would get some more 10mm plates
to make the sides of the box. hence i also need to learn to tap holes too...
oil would be either splashing, or more likely a pump scavanged from an engine. maybe a cooler too.
Just a shame that the standard sprocket is smaller than a sierra diff flange, makes it a bit of a twat to get together. i might just buy a spare
sprocket and chain, and squeeze it in. is it possible to change the length of a bike chain?
I wouldn't make the casing out of more than 3 pieces. It would be a PITA to seal, and youd need to fit loads of dowels to prevent it from
squirming around.
Jut a front and back plate the same (or slightly larger) thickness as the width of the bearings, and a centre section to hold the gears.
The lubrication could be Teed off the engine's lubrication system.
I can't believe the diff flange is larger than the original bike sprocket, but anyway, you would undoubtedly have to work out different
ratios/sizes anywaw.
BTW, using this method means you wouldn't be limited to using a Sierra X diff, you could use any diff you want because the final drive ratio can
be altered through the chains and sprockets.
Yes, chains can be altered or made any length.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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sgraber
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 10:43 PM |
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Thanks Joel for pointing me over here.
Working on the same problem over here.
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2
engines transverse inline...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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JoelP
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 10:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2
engines transverse inline...
transverse inline... would that be sprockets in, out or both facing left? or right i suppose, to be complete! im guessing its either both on the n/s
(is uk nearside the same as US nearside?!), or both sprockets facing in. you could use 4 beveled gears to send drive both forward and backward, though
obviously there would then be no centre diff.
the reason i like the layout in the diagram above, is that both exhausts point outward, and all 4 carbs are nestled in the middle. It just seems neat
to me.
ps, i'll photo the zx9 in the garage and stick some measurements on it soon.
[Edited on 23/11/04 by JoelP]
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sgraber
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 11:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
transverse inline... would that be sprockets in, out or both facing left? or right i suppose, to be complete!
No, like the first photo in the other thread... here
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=19434&page=1
Graber - reversing gearbox, but you do need a diff carrier (with a diff) and a chain to the sprocket...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Rorty
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| posted on 23/11/04 at 11:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Thanks Joel for pointing me over here.
Working on the same problem over here.
I need to get some Bike engine measurements to see if it makes more sense to place the 2 engines in the arrangement we discuss here, or placing the 2
engines transverse inline...
I just tried posting DXF files of the Honda CBR600-RR and Suzuki GSXR600 engines, but obviously the forum won't accept that format.
I'll email them to you so you can get started straight away.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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