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Author: Subject: Is it just me?
Alan B

posted on 2/2/15 at 07:05 PM Reply With Quote
Is it just me?

Or is 3D printing massively over-hyped?

Don't get me wrong I think it's marvelous technology and I get parts 3D printed on a regular basis......but really?....


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the -roadblocks-ahead-for-the-3d-printed-car/?YM_MID=3283&YM_RID=CPG03000001603871

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rdodger

posted on 2/2/15 at 07:21 PM Reply With Quote
I think it's typical of most new technologies. It takes a while to really become useful. As prices fall etc

Konisegggggg seem to be doing alright with it printing turbos and exhaust parts.






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Badger_McLetcher

posted on 2/2/15 at 07:36 PM Reply With Quote
Yes and no. Everyone is excited at the moment because of the huge potential for the system, however I think they may get tired of waiting for the actual technology to catch up with its potential.





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coozer

posted on 2/2/15 at 07:43 PM Reply With Quote
I reckon it could be great, I want some bits making for my rc crawler!





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Slimy38

posted on 2/2/15 at 07:49 PM Reply With Quote
I think it has the most potential where manufacturing is limited, and that's on other planets. Similar to what happened on the ISS recently, instead of having to wait for someone to send them a tool, it was designed on earth, emailed and then 3d printed.

To ship everything that could be possible required in an other-world mission would require something massive. But on the other hand, the equivalent amount of filament (for want of a better word) and the ability to print only what is needed makes things a lot more efficient. Even better, if the filament can be extracted from local elements then it becomes a limitless manufacturing approach.

Back on Earth, certainly for larger things there are better techniques. As mentioned, koenigsegg are probably using it at it's most effective, I don't believe their 3d printed turbo parts can be made any other way.


[Edited on 2/2/15 by Slimy38]

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liam.mccaffrey

posted on 2/2/15 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote
Let not forget whats its actually for and what it was called before "3D Printing" was coined......Rapid prototyping!!





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Slimy38

posted on 2/2/15 at 09:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Let not forget whats its actually for and what it was called before "3D Printing" was coined......Rapid prototyping!!


Mmm, good point. Although in most cases it's moved beyond prototyping and into production.

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Alan B

posted on 2/2/15 at 10:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Let not forget whats its actually for and what it was called before "3D Printing" was coined......Rapid prototyping!!


Mmm, good point. Although in most cases it's moved beyond prototyping and into production.


Got to disagree with you on that.

Sure there are some applications for finished usable parts, but I think you'll find that prototyping is still the biggest market. I say this mainly because it is so slow a process that unless you can't make something any other way you will definitely save time and money using conventional means. I see parts that could have been made on a conventional milling machine (more accurately, and with better materials) getting made in 5 to 10 times the time on a 3D printer, just because they could......crazy.

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Slimy38

posted on 2/2/15 at 11:24 PM Reply With Quote
Yes, sorry thats kind of what I mean. I see the move into production is a negative one, as you say there's the novelty of 'because we can', and an occasional 'because its the only way', but in the presence of more conventional means it faces a lot of competition.
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Alan B

posted on 2/2/15 at 11:38 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
Yes, sorry thats kind of what I mean. I see the move into production is a negative one, as you say there's the novelty of 'because we can', and an occasional 'because its the only way', but in the presence of more conventional means it faces a lot of competition.


Yep, agreed.

I suspect the machine manufacturers know what's really happening and are focusing more on new applications rather than trying to compete with conventional processes.
At my last company we had an example where 3D printing really was the best way...we had a rectangular block with a rectangular hole passing through it, tricky bit was that the hole twisted/spiralled about 30 degrees as it passed though. The previous solution was to bolt together a stack of thin plates to make the part, but obviously on this occasion 3D printing was a no-brainer answer.

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bart

posted on 3/2/15 at 12:42 AM Reply With Quote
I use 3d printing on a fairly regular basis
first no its not cheap , but when you consider a say 500 printed part you can then test or 30k for injection tooling only to find out that it don't feel correct or don't fit or nobody like's the design " in the flesh" its a absolute no brainer

on a recent project I went through five major design rethinks due to
a) it feels totally different in the hand to what it looks like on a cad screen ( we had a lot of mechanical and electronic internal constraints )
b) product / component specification changes as it progressed

so on that basis I paid @ 2500 for 3d printing vs say 175k of tooling ( go figure no brainer )
also we were able to take publicity shots for product release and leaflets long before we had any production product.
it also helps the marketing side enormously before commitment to large sums of money

Also consider that you can now get metal printed parts and numerous types of plastic and other materials , some that just look pretty and some that are almost totally functional , certainly for mechanical fit testing .

at the moment its only feasible for production in very limited conditions , but its getting there .

just thought id throw my hat in the ring gents ! and share my thoughts





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bart

posted on 3/2/15 at 12:50 AM Reply With Quote
PPS

PPS
I designing a 3d women for printing ( full scale , or half scale if your a real cheap ass )

it wont answer back
has know views on "your car"
cant read the bank statement
don't need to go out for dinner or " look at the squirrel days "
lets you watch , top gear , followed by dragons den , followed by guy martin ( on +1 ) without moaning this is S**T
don't need new clothes or in fact any clothes !

taking orders , any takers free File any format you like .








BE ALERT > BRITAIN NEEDS LERTS

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David Jenkins

posted on 3/2/15 at 08:55 AM Reply With Quote
I recently bought myself a 3D printer kit (Prusa i3, for those that know). It's been an interesting learning experience, not least because I've had to learn CAD - if you want to make original pieces then you just have to learn. The major problem is that top-quality CAD programs are extremely expensive - I'm using a free open-source program called FreeCAD, but that has lots of rough edges as it's really still in development. I also have Blender on my machine, which is an amazingly good free program for 3D design and artwork... but phenomenally hard to learn.

There are also a load of charlatans in the amateur 3D printing world - there is a certain Asian country that is dumping cheap tat onto newbies who don't know what's good and what's bad - it's similar to what's happened in the radio-control world. Unfortunately this results in newbies who struggle to achieve a decent result.

As an aside, there's an interesting video on Jay Leno's YouTube site where he introduces his 3D kit - he 3D scans broken parts off his vintage cars, prints them off in a high-class machine, tries them for size and fit, then uses the plastic models as patterns for metal casting. It helps to have tons of money...

[Edited on 3/2/15 by David Jenkins]





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theconrodkid

posted on 3/2/15 at 08:58 AM Reply With Quote
i like Barts idea





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whitestu

posted on 3/2/15 at 10:24 AM Reply With Quote
I'll probably regret asking but what are'look at the squirrel' days?
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bart

posted on 3/2/15 at 10:36 AM Reply With Quote
Look at the squirrel days
You know your desperate to carry on with the car
But you feel obliged ( read guilt ) to take the other half out to some park for a "nice walk"
And whilst there its polite to say things like
"I'm glad I came" ( not )
And "ohhh look at the squirrel"
Followed by oh look
Another f% _% squirrel





BE ALERT > BRITAIN NEEDS LERTS

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onenastyviper

posted on 3/2/15 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Let not forget whats its actually for and what it was called before "3D Printing" was coined......Rapid prototyping!!


Mmm, good point. Although in most cases it's moved beyond prototyping and into production.


Got to disagree with you on that.

Sure there are some applications for finished usable parts, but I think you'll find that prototyping is still the biggest market. I say this mainly because it is so slow a process that unless you can't make something any other way you will definitely save time and money using conventional means. I see parts that could have been made on a conventional milling machine (more accurately, and with better materials) getting made in 5 to 10 times the time on a 3D printer, just because they could......crazy.


Don't forget to include the training, tooling, setup and lost material costs etc.

3D Printing/Rapid Prototyping is just like any other tool and in time, it will be revised, improved and find its niche areas.

It has the "potential" to do great things but in todays "here today, gone tomorrow" market, it could quickly become a has-been if the innovations come along too slowly.





"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"

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acb2713

posted on 3/2/15 at 11:43 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bart
Look at the squirrel days
You know your desperate to carry on with the car
But you feel obliged ( read guilt ) to take the other half out to some park for a "nice walk"
And whilst there its polite to say things like
"I'm glad I came" ( not )
And "ohhh look at the squirrel"
Followed by oh look
Another f% _% squirrel


Where is the 'like' button when you need it?

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Mr Whippy

posted on 3/2/15 at 12:53 PM Reply With Quote
Really amazing given that with 3d printing the car could have looked like anything at all is that it is such a hideous looking thing
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coyoteboy

posted on 3/2/15 at 01:14 PM Reply With Quote
Personally I find 3D printing/RP to be something of a gimmick for sales folk. Any half-decent mechanical design eng can see from the CAD model exactly what the problems are, where the fitment issues will be and how mechanisms work. They work well for folk who can't envisage things very well or who need a toy to hold while talking. "proving" something with plastic 3D printed parts /almost/ never proves anything.

Where that changes is with SLS parts and SLM parts where 100% dense metal parts are manufacturable in completely un-machinable ways to optimise specific strength or stiffness, but from what I hear from the machine manufacturers this is still only a scraping of the actual uses the hardware is being put to.

It's also VERY expensive to make SLM parts - the half-decent spec machines run at 400K and an annual running cost of ~30K for gases and materials, for anyone building parts that can be machined other ways that is just mental. So it leaves niche production uses - one-offs with very high value or very low FOS due to mass - space componentry, race cars etc.

It IS an awesome technology (in the true meaning), but it's generally put to bad use and the cheaper machines are nothing more than toys.





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