steveydee
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 posted on 1/7/15 at 10:17 PM |
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K20a into E30? which gearbox ?
I love my type r but its a bit of a dog and I love the engine and have been thinking of putting it into a rwd body but want it to be a daily and
practical so ive just bought a bmw 316i e30 (1990)
Has anyone known of anyone to use a bmw box on the k20a?
And the mt75.... are the 5 and 6 speed boxes interchangeable? As id like to go for 6 speed if its the same amount of work
I know the rx8 gearbox has been done but can't find any details on it
Thanks in advance for your help
I now its not a kitcar but this is the only helpful forum I know of, bmw people would just shout abuse and tell me to fit a big heavy 6 cylinder bm
lump in that makes less power than the k20
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Brook_lands
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 08:51 AM |
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I'm afraid this is the teacher in me coming out.
I would suggest that for these sorts of projects the following applies
Outcome = Money x (Enthusiasm + (Skill x Time x Facilities)).
As it is not a standard kind of swap it is going to be tough going and unless you have a lot of time, facilities and skill then the kind of money it
would cost would be disproportionate to the outcome unless you just want to do it and have plenty of dosh.
RWD boxes, especially 6 speed are not common. The chances of one bolting straight up to the Honda engine is remote, we tend to be spoilt with Ford.
Honda S2000 comes to mind but you would have to do your research as to whether it fits.
There is so much to plan and think about before you start spending your cash.
I'm afraid I've seen too many people start from the wrong place with projects usually based on saving or using a car they already own
rather than starting with the outcome they want and working back to find the best way of getting there. Although its a nice idea I expect getting the
engine to bolt to a RWD gearbox will be one of the simpler problems to solve.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 10:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Brook_lands
Honda S2000 comes to mind but you would have to do your research as to whether it fits.
It doesn't, only two of the bolt holes line up unfortunately so you'd still need to make an adapter plate.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 11:23 AM |
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I would be looking at something like a nissan 200 sx for this conversion. Drop everything in in one go and pretty straightforward electrics.
The k swap could be done but will be complex and expensive , you'll be looking at about a grand just for an ecu - you could probably get a whole
200sx for that.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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Ugg10
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 11:27 AM |
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Things to work out -
1) Do the bolts between the bellhousing and the engine fit (previous post suggest not) > therefore adaptor plate needed
2) Does the K20 have a spigot bearing cavity in the end of the crank, some FWD only engines do not
3) If yes to 2) then is this compatible with the diameter of the input shaft of the gearbox
4) So, of you can design/make and adaptor plate and the spigot bearing/input shaft problem is solvable then next on the list is starter motor
position, hopefully solvable with the adaptor plate if engine side, if gearbox side then may need either gearbox mods to get it to mesh with the
flywheel
5) If everything is still going OK, then we are now at the stage of looking at gearbox input shaft diameter and spline design and whether you can get
a clutch plate and cover to match this and the flywheel.
so- as others have said, the F20 is basically a similar engine and comes already bolted to a RWD gearbox and it may be easier to bolt this in making
minor tunnel metalwork mods and a new mount than trying to get a box to fit. But be aware that the BMW tend to have a different philosophy for geabox
ratios and diff ratio than the Japanese card. BMW have high geared boxes and low gear diffs where as the Japanese are the other way round. Example -
BMW 328i E36 Sedan Manual
1st - 4.2
2nd - 2.49
3rd - 1.66
4th - 1.24
5th - 1.00
Diff 2.93
redline - 6500
S2000 Ap1
Gear Reduction - 1.160 (hopefully I have calculated the equivalent ratio correctly below)
1st gear - 3.133 = 3.63 equiv
2nd gear - 2.045 = 2.37 equiv
3rd gear - 1.481 = 1.72 equiv
4th gear - 1.161 = 1.34 equiv
5th gear - 0.970 = 1.12 equiv
6th gear - 0.810 = 0.939 equiv
Diff - 4.10
redline - 9000
Finally, may be worth checking that the BMW boxes can rev to 9k safely/reliably, this may be the limiting factor as they may well have only been
designed for 6.5k.
Hope this helps
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Dingz
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 12:57 PM |
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Doesn't the engine rotate the 'wrong' way too?
Phoned the local ramblers club today, but the bloke who answered just
went on and on.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 01:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dingz
Doesn't the engine rotate the 'wrong' way too?
No. That was the old B series engines.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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Daf
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| posted on 2/7/15 at 01:59 PM |
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If you want a fast E30 its certainly worth looking at BMW engine options. I appreciate you like the characteristics of the k20, but t fitted an M52
2.8 engine to mine and it was an animal. If you want really fast the s52 (m3 engine from an e36) makes an epic car - I would imagine the cost of all
the complexities in fitting the k20 would be more.
That said I love it when people do things out of the ordinary, so good luck if you do the k20 conversion, it'd make a fantastic car.
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steveydee
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:17 PM |
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Thanks for your help guys. A lot more positive than I was expecting.
Ive found this and sounds like its getting common  Its k20 to an AZ6 (RX8 GEARBOX)
http://www.racingforum.pl/index.php?showtopic=105452
I just need to look using a laptop to translate and see if I can contact this guy
The e30 is a cool little new home for my k20. Im not looking for an engine for the e30 if you get what I mean?
The k20 is a light little 4 pot so should be able to handle well and still have the possibility of a supercharger
As for ECU etc ive got the whole civic so I will just use the original
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Ugg10
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:30 PM |
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If you are looking at the az6 route it would be worth chatting to p9cyo on turbosports as he is selling lots of adaptor plates for this box. He now
has an eBay shop.
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=500016
Type 9 Conversion Plate RX8 Kitcar Redtop Cosworth Zetec Mk 1 Mk2 Escort Capri
Nice box and will take the power and revs (also used in lexus is200, brz/gt86, 200sx and mk3 mx5) but they all have different input shaft diameters
and splines but if someone has sorted the clutch and spigot bearing then that helps.
First gear is pretty short but after that it is basically a four speed rocket box with a cruise sixth gear. You xan always start off in second :--)
You can use this to check first gear speeds, 70mph revs and rev drop between gears. Note I don't think the tyre diameter bit is working so I use
www.willtheyfit.com and divide by 25.4 (mm per inch).
http://www.subarugears.com/Ratios/Ratios.html
[Edited on 3/7/15 by Ugg10]
[Edited on 3/7/15 by Ugg10]
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:36 PM |
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There is a bellhousing available that mates it to a ford gearbox. Available from des Moore Rallying in northern Ireland....
[Edited on 3/7/15 by Volvorsport]
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 09:42 PM |
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Scratch that I didn't read the post properly. I thought k20a was s2000 anyway...!!
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 3/7/15 at 10:12 PM |
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There has recently a swap kit introduced to get a K20A into a NB/NC Mx-5/ Miata using the Mazdas gearbox, maybe worth a look?
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steveydee
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| posted on 5/7/15 at 12:04 AM |
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The mx5 box is the same pretty much so yeah im trying to find what I can in them all
I know the s2000 box dont mate up but I know it has been done so that is another option
S2000 manifolds and sump to k20, do they fit?
Started to pull the civic apart today and have good look around the e30 today
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steveydee
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| posted on 5/7/15 at 09:27 PM |
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Just bought a box from an s2000 
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