Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Fuel injection for dummies
snapper

posted on 20/1/16 at 05:15 PM Reply With Quote
Fuel injection for dummies

Me, I'm the dummy that needs a whole lot of understanding to forced slowly and carefully into my aching brain.

I have played with Pintos for a while and for my latest evolution I have bought a set of Mikuni throttle bodies on a Pinto manifold.
It used to run on Microsquirt but I don't have that or any ECU as yet.
I do have a wide band lambda ready to fit.
The throttle body wiring looks like it's paired to fire 1+4 & 2+3 together
TPS has 3 wires ground, signal V+ ref

So I need to get a view on ECU's that a rolling road can tune, the easy but most expensive option.
And some understanding on self tuning as an option





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 20/1/16 at 05:20 PM Reply With Quote
Dave Walkers book on fuel injection explains things in easy to understand language , can also recommend his Emerald ECUs and rolling road as I'm sure others on the forum can. No connection just a satisfied customer .
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
nick205

posted on 20/1/16 at 05:30 PM Reply With Quote
I've also found Dave Walker's books easy to read and understand.






View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Ugg10

posted on 20/1/16 at 05:36 PM Reply With Quote
Emerald are not the cheapest but if you have a wide band lambda you can either run it closed loop based on it automatically altering the injection to meet a predetermined air/fuel ratio or you can set up a base map with target AFR and after running for a while on the road will tell you what changes to make to get it to match. That will get you 90% of the way there if you play around a bit whilst driving about (light, medium, full throttle at different revs etc.).

I have Omex at the moment which seems intuitive to work with and even though I bought a second hand ecu they were happy to send me a base map to work from.

MSquirt you know about

So I guess that is the top 3 but the EMU ECU looks interesting from a price/spec point of view but some strangeness about US/EU versions and windows compatibility and an odd pricing structure.

CANEMS is probably worth a look as well, looks similar in terms of performance/functions to MS but a good price - check out Lloyd motorsport in Wilts.

Basics connection to make it run as you have identified are -

Injectors=fuel (either batched or sequential), coil pack=spark (emerald, omex and other plug straight in MS need an EDIS IIRC which are getting harder to find), crank sensor=timing point (remember to use shielded wire for this), TPS (three wire is OK - earth, 12v, signal) or MAP (manifold pressure)=load (most use TPS on NA engine), Air temp, coolant temp. Options include cam sensor (if going sequential), VCT/VTEC control (not on all ecu's but most can be made to work to a fashion with an aux output), speed sensor (for traction control), idle valve control and lambda.

ECU will also usually output controller signal (switched earth) for the rad fan(s) and a tacho feed for gauge/digidash.

That all said, as you have identified, most ECUs will work fine if wired up correctly, the trick is finding a tuner that can get the best out of it in an efficient time. I am sure Bailey will be on in a while to give his pennies worth but emerald and Omex seem to be the most popular along with MS, other seem to be more specialist.

Hope this helps.





---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 20/1/16 at 06:02 PM Reply With Quote
Whatever ECU you decide to use make sure it is user friendly , some can only be setup by dealers , I think the Weber system may fall into this catogary ?. People say you need a wide band lambda sensor but I managed to get my Xflow conversion running and driving pretty well using a narrow band sensor and the built in emission tester.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BaileyPerformance

posted on 20/1/16 at 06:08 PM Reply With Quote
Best solution is Megasquirt 2 (with coil drivers to drive a ford coilpack directly) No EDIS module.

36-1 trigger wheel on front pulley

Leave dizzy in place to drive the oil pump

Yes its normal to batch fire injectors in pairs (1+4) (2+3) this is how megasquirt would be wired.

The TPS you have is fine for megasquirt (or any other ECU really)

Injectors are probably fine too

We have mapped several pintos on MS, couple N/A, one turbo and one supercharged.

Drop me a U2U if we can help or give use a shout

07967 222967

Cheers Dale

NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
BaileyPerformance

posted on 20/1/16 at 06:09 PM Reply With Quote
....no need for any sort of lambda sensor if you plan on getting it setup on a dyno.

if your going to setup on the road then a wideband is required.

NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
Chris_Xtreme

posted on 21/1/16 at 09:06 AM Reply With Quote
listen to dale

also if you are to buy a MS - I would strongly recommend buying it from Dale or Phil at http://www.extraefi.co.uk/


I used someone else and got mucked about, before finding Dale and Phil.


you could always use LS2 coils which have drivers built in, like I did rather than edis.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
ALLAN 14

posted on 21/1/16 at 03:32 PM Reply With Quote
Hi All.
Is the book by Dave Walker just about Injection systems or all engine managment?
Who publishes the book and where can I get a copy?
As I am a bit long in the tooth it reads better in a book.
Regards To you all

ALLAN 14

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member   ALLAN+14 's Yahoo
Ugg10

posted on 21/1/16 at 03:50 PM Reply With Quote
I think it is this one -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimising-Carburettors-High-performance/dp/1859608353/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453391306&sr=8-1& keywords=engine+management+walker

But I also found this -

Engine Management and Fuel Injection Systems by Haynes





---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
snapper

posted on 21/1/16 at 06:30 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks very much for the information so far
I have Megajolt on 2 of my Pintos so most of the mechanical ecu fit is not a problem.
It's good to know that my initial investigations are on the right track.
Without going into much detail fuel delivery etc is also catered for except for pump, pressure regulator and swapping out some carb fuel pipe for injection type.
Good to know I can get the car mapped on Megasquirt and have some options with this, may have one available secondhand but will check with Extra EFI and Bailey's to make sure I source the right spec.

Now for a deeper understanding if you would indulge me.

To start with recommend me tuning software to download.
From this I will look at the parameters that can be changed and start to understand EFI in more depth





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 21/1/16 at 07:26 PM Reply With Quote
Try emeraldm3d , may be of help
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Chris_Xtreme

posted on 21/1/16 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote
http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/downloads

for megasquirt

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
snapper

posted on 23/1/16 at 11:34 AM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the link to Tuner studio, also a bonus they do it for Mac & PC as I use Mac mostly but have PC laptop for the car.
I've just bought the Dave Walker/Haynes book so when that arrives and tuner studio is installed I'll try to ask some pertinent questions.





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 23/1/16 at 01:13 PM Reply With Quote
Don't know if the book still comes with a CD , if so it lets you have a play
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
snapper

posted on 23/1/16 at 01:58 PM Reply With Quote
I said this thread was EFI for Dummies and I have the first of many dumb questions.
I have downloaded on my Mac Mini Tuner Studio & Megalog viewer.
I have downloaded the appropriate Java.
Opening Tuner Studio presents the first screen with TunerStudio MS. EFI Analytics box and in the bottom left corner or the opening screen "Error: problem extracting Main Start Screen files: it... Can't uncover the rest to be able to read it.
What do I do next?





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rusty nuts

posted on 31/1/16 at 11:30 AM Reply With Quote
Can't help you there I'm afraid . I looked at building a Megasquirt a few years ago , spent weeks reading up on various websites etc but just ended up getting more and more confused . There does seem to be a lot of conflicting information .I'm an absolute numpty when it comes to electronics , had there been a step to step guide I would have had a go but my wife brought me an Emerald for xmas one year so I didn't bother.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Chris_Xtreme

posted on 31/1/16 at 05:48 PM Reply With Quote
friad, I can't help in detail - don't use a MAC,

tunerstudio worked fine on windows and linux.

one thing I can think of is to make sure that the java that is needed is the one being used.

I can't remember if you have to tell tunerstudio where java is or if it will use what is in the path.. MAC might have another java in the path which it may be finding before the required one.

try and run it command line from a terminal, may enlighten you some more.

tunerstudio is pretty easy to use. there are many many variables, a lot you don't need and also depend on which megasquird version you are going to get. I have a MS1 extra so pretty basic, that trims the choices down!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [ 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.