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Author: Subject: Mocal take off and oil cooler, flow speed question
bi22le

posted on 31/1/16 at 08:16 PM Reply With Quote
Mocal take off and oil cooler, flow speed question

Hi all,

On my 4age I have a mocal sandwich take off plate in the normal place, between the engine and the oil filter.

The oil take off goes straight to a Mocal 13 row Oil rad and back.The rad has both connections at the top.

When the stat opens I kind of expected the oil to flow through as fast as on the water circuit. Feeling for the heat as it warms up it seems painfully slow to cycle and warm up the rad.

I have been battling with high oil temps on track and with this set up it should be perfect, if not too cool. I am wondering if the flow of oil is too slow and if \ why this would be.

The slow heat flow that I feel is when leaving the car on tick over for a 'heat cycle' in my garage. When the car is reved the oil pressure goes up as expected, will the flow speed also go up?

Any checks I can do?

Any upgrades I can do, after market oil pump or additional one in line?





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cliftyhanger

posted on 31/1/16 at 09:02 PM Reply With Quote
So the take off plate has a stat built in?

I was under the impression that the stats were bypass in design (certainly the in-line ones) So much of the oil doesn't go through the rad. Makes some sense as the rad could be pretty restrictive, something you don't want with oil.

You really need to test it out in anger to see if it will do the job. And remember the oil takes a while to heat up and thin. And it will flow easier when hot.

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MikeRJ

posted on 31/1/16 at 09:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
When the stat opens I kind of expected the oil to flow through as fast as on the water circuit. Feeling for the heat as it warms up it seems painfully slow to cycle and warm up the rad.


Oil and water thermostats are not binary on/off devices. They gradually open as the oil temperature increases above some limit, and obviously when only slightly open the oil flow through the cooler will be low.

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bi22le

posted on 31/1/16 at 10:12 PM Reply With Quote
True about it not being binary, that is a good point.

It gets anger, it loves me getting angry with it!! I thought the oil would sit lower though, I think it sits at around 110.





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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02GF74

posted on 31/1/16 at 11:19 PM Reply With Quote
Vaguely remember oil temp being discussed, 130 c springs to mind. Basically want it above 100 so any moisture i.e. water boils off

Quote from thinkauto, who know more about this stuff than me.

Every engine will have a different oil temperature requirement but, as a general rule temperatures in excess of 110°C should be avoided.

[Edited on 31/1/16 by 02GF74]






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CosKev3

posted on 1/2/16 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
The thermostats in oil cooler never fully close,this is why they can over cool on road use.
They don't fully close as if they did when they opened there would be a big drop in oil pressure as it goes through cooler,so if you were at high revs it could take out the engine.
If you look at a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate the stat is open about 40% at all times.
In my VRS on Castle Combe without a cooler I saw oil temps heading towards 150,so fitted a cooler and the next time I went on they did not exceed 115.

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bi22le

posted on 1/2/16 at 05:15 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
The thermostats in oil cooler never fully close,this is why they can over cool on road use.
They don't fully close as if they did when they opened there would be a big drop in oil pressure as it goes through cooler,so if you were at high revs it could take out the engine.
If you look at a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate the stat is open about 40% at all times.
In my VRS on Castle Combe without a cooler I saw oil temps heading towards 150,so fitted a cooler and the next time I went on they did not exceed 115.


I think mine is sitting about 110 when pushing on track so maybe in just being picky





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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CosKev3

posted on 1/2/16 at 05:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
The thermostats in oil cooler never fully close,this is why they can over cool on road use.
They don't fully close as if they did when they opened there would be a big drop in oil pressure as it goes through cooler,so if you were at high revs it could take out the engine.
If you look at a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate the stat is open about 40% at all times.
In my VRS on Castle Combe without a cooler I saw oil temps heading towards 150,so fitted a cooler and the next time I went on they did not exceed 115.


I think mine is sitting about 110 when pushing on track so maybe in just being picky


Yeah be fine

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ss1turbo

posted on 2/2/16 at 07:28 AM Reply With Quote
If it holds 110-115 degrees, it'll be fine.

Ovecooled oil is bad as has been said - it should be at least higher than the water temp but the max will depend on the oil in use. Some really good oils will stand over 130 degrees although their life drops off above this quite dramatically.

If you can keep it within the 100-110 region that's pretty good going I would say, although its not a hard and fast rule. Don't panic if it hits 112 or even 115 momentarily as even the best oil thermostats have some response delay in them.





Long live RWD...

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CosKev3

posted on 2/2/16 at 09:05 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ss1turbo
If it holds 110-115 degrees, it'll be fine.

Ovecooled oil is bad as has been said - it should be at least higher than the water temp but the max will depend on the oil in use. Some really good oils will stand over 130 degrees although their life drops off above this quite dramatically.

If you can keep it within the 100-110 region that's pretty good going I would say, although its not a hard and fast rule. Don't panic if it hits 112 or even 115 momentarily as even the best oil thermostats have some response delay in them.


The Mocal stats are fully open at 80,so above that your just running full flow permanently.

It's down to the size of your cooler/airflow though it then if your still seeing temps that are too high.

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