trialsman
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 03:17 AM |
|
|
Xflow starter problems
OK guys, I am pleading for help. The starter has gone out on the 7 AGAIN!!! This will be the 6th one. I have maybe started the car 30 times since the
starter was rebuilt. The motor is a newly build Ford Xflow 1600cc 771M block (Fiesta) with a Ford type 3 4speed (British) transmission. What in the
world is going on? The starter spins but does not engage the flywheel. This is exactly what happened in October when it left me high and dry in
Wisconsin. This is driving me crazy. I am afraid to drive my car for fear of it leaving me stranded. Russ
|
|
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 03:27 AM |
|
|
Is the inertia thingy loose and greased?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 03:33 AM |
|
|
Don't know but I will check after I do an electrical check tomorrow. Going to hot wire the starter to see if it works. On a previous starter
that had the same symptons it did not work. Russ
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 06:59 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Is the inertia thingy loose and greased?
That is a sure way to cause the problem, the Bendix drive on an inertia starter must run dry or it will stick.
With an inertia starter the smallest particle of grit sticking to the spiral mechanism will stop the drive getting thrown in.
Cleaning with WD40 iis OK but the best lubricant for the Bendix mechanism is graphite powder lock lubricant.
link
http://www.doorfurnituredirect.co.uk/graphite-lubricant.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiA3t-2BRCKivi-suDY24gBEiQAX1wiXKKoV-vsoI_WCc0z1NGwMze3_YxNv6hpNexfNnVy_u4aAsy
h8P8HAQ
Inertia starters are not likely to suffer the same type of problem and can be lightly lubricated.
[Edited on 3/3/16 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
steve m
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 02:21 PM |
|
|
I lost my starter motor on the M4 last year, and im not joking!
replaced it with a high torque one, and its soo much better in every way
it weighs half of the intertia one
it uses a third of the power
it spins the engine over so fast, you can see it on the rev counter
Ford X-Flow Edge 1Kw High Torque Starter Motor 9 Tooth
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 02:46 PM |
|
|
These things just dont not work. The last time I had one of these fail it was because the brushes were worn away. Can you hear if the bendix is
grating against the ring gear but not engaging, because of damage to said gear. Do you have a good battery without any loose connections. Try clamping
the starter motor in the vice and apply power, the Bendix should really fly out......
|
|
|
r1_pete
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 03:24 PM |
|
|
Are you sure you've got the starter which matches your flywheel, if the starter gear has too few teeth it will wear very quickly to the point of
not engaging.
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 05:30 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Are you sure you've got the starter which matches your flywheel, if the starter gear has too few teeth it will wear very quickly to the point of
not engaging.
Ha ha, yes there are still some of those evil 9 and 11 toothers out there.....
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 07:48 PM |
|
|
How many teeth is it suppose to have?
|
|
|
r1_pete
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 08:30 PM |
|
|
It many years since I played with crossflows, back in the 70s so you need to check, but I think flywheels had 109, 110, or 132 teeth.
The smaller two used inertia starters with 11 teeth.
The bigger one used a pre engaged starter.
I guess your first check would be how many flywheel teeth, put a blob of paint on one then count round through the starter hole, youll need someone to
turn the motor slowly for you.....
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
Also check which side of the ring gear has a chamfer , inertia ring gear will be on the gearbox side , pre engaged should have 130 teeth and the
chamfer on the engine side of the ring gear. I'm not sure if a flywheel from a Fiesta is the same as a RWD?
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
110 toothed flywheel should have a 10 tooth pinion, but..................
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 3/3/16 at 09:14 PM |
|
|
The flywheel came off an American Pinto which is not the same as your Pinto
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 02:36 PM |
|
|
OK the starter has 9 teeth and the flywheel has 135 teeth. What do you think?
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 04:08 PM |
|
|
I could be wring but I thought that our 2 litre Pinto SOHC was 135 teeth, though how it would fit a cross flow crank I dont know,.,,,,
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 04:20 PM |
|
|
USA Pinto different that English Pinto
|
|
|
r1_pete
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 06:14 PM |
|
|
Does the USA pinto have a pre engaged starter? If so I would try that route, better still make sure flywheel bellhousing and starter are all from the
same engine / trans.
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
starter looks like this
ACDelco 17 F 323 227 Remanufactured Starter Motor 1971 77 Ford
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 07:32 PM |
|
|
That is a pre engaged and will not work with a standard x-flow ring gear. ...
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 4/3/16 at 08:48 PM |
|
|
In the USA the Ford Pinto/Mustang/Falcon used the 711m xflow with this type 3 transmission AND this starter that PUSHES the starter gear INTO the
flywheel. The starter on my old 1300cc xflow and type 2 tranny PULLED the starter gear into the back of a different type flywheel. Russ
|
|
|
rusty nuts
|
| posted on 5/3/16 at 08:15 AM |
|
|
In the UK a Pinto engine was a single overhead cam , the Xflow was an overhead valve so that may well be where some confusion is creeping in? If the
combination of engine, bell housing, flywheel and starter is as it would have been in the donor then everything is known to work. The problem as I see
it is working out what's causing the failures? When the previous starters have failed was it because they didn't engage with the ring gear
when they had previously? Did you try cleaning the bendix and bench testing before replacement? I have seen starters that have been lubricated, once
fitted clutch dust sticks to the oil until it's enough to stop the starter working, as BT points out graphite is what's recommended but I
have never used it, just fitted starters dry and I must have done several hundreds. If the new starter initially worked try cleaning , if it is a
reoccurring problem then I would suspect a cheap or incorrectly adjusted or used clutch. Hope you get to the bottom of it i
|
|
|
trialsman
|
| posted on 5/3/16 at 02:15 PM |
|
|
A race car builder friend had a suggestion. He says elongate the top hole. Don't
put a bolt in the #2 hole (temporary) and put a bolt in the # 3 hole. He
thinks the starter gear is binding on the flywheel. This should allow me
to pivot the starter ever so slightly away from the flywheel. Russ
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 5/3/16 at 02:27 PM |
|
|
Yes, this is an old trick, mainly with the 2 bolt type, but you may have to do a bit of filing on the ally spigot to give a bit more movement.....
|
|
|
.jpg)
