Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: Duratec cooling again
neilp1

posted on 6/4/16 at 07:34 PM Reply With Quote
Duratec cooling again

Hi all,
I have a Tiger Avon kit car with a 2lt duratec installed. My problem is as soon as I hit traffic the temp goes up (steadily) to 120 odd degrees and the oil pressure drops to single figures. Oil presure comes back up once I drive though and water temp comes down. water temp fine when driving.
I have a large alloy polo type radiator (I used to have standard polo rad) and kenlowe fan which I have recently changed to see if it would cure it (it hasn't) I also fitted an oil cooler (for much the same reason as oil pressure was very low). I have added water wetter (which has done nothing at all) I've also fitted a new water pump. I had a different engine fitted last year (2lt duratec) but this was swapped out due to smoking and the temp problem was the same.
I beleive I have it plumed in correctly with water temp sender in top hose and Omex ECU set at 95deg for the fan. Stat is mechanical type from raceline.
I have cut loads of vents in my bonnet but it has not helped much.
Is there anything I could have missed or anything else I could try? below is photos of my set up.

Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description


Description
Description

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
britishtrident

posted on 6/4/16 at 08:19 PM Reply With Quote
My first port of call is to check the ignition timing, the ignition timing has to be conservative enough below idle to allow cranking but in the idle range if it is too retarded it will cause excessive heat recject particularly to the lower end of the engine and exhaust.
I would check the ignition timing the old school way with a timing light against a valid mark on the bottom pulley, 13 to 15 degrees BTDC at 800 rpm should be about right.

The other thing that occurs to me is the airflow through the engine bay the fan could be re-cycling hot air from the engine bay when the car is stationary, some builders have had to add extra side vents to let the air out. The way to check if extra extracion vents are required is test it with the bonnect removed.





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Kdempsie

posted on 6/4/16 at 09:48 PM Reply With Quote
The pipe connections seem OK, the same as I have on my car. The only difference on mine is that my car is mid engined. I had trouble with cooling for a while where the system wasn't flowing through the rad properly but I think that was caused by air locks and the longer run to my radiator. Is your rad warming evenly once the stat opens?

Is the stat definitely opening properly?

I resorted to an electric pump in the end because my pipe runs just seemed to be too much for the standard pump, I also changed my rad but just for another polo type but with a bleed pipe off the top. With hindsight I think that's where most of the improvement came from. With the standard pump I used to need to speed the engine up to fast idle to cool it down when stationary (sometimes).

It's worth getting someone to start the car and rev the engine and check the bottom hose is not closing up under pump suction and as already mentioned check what the ignition timing looks like. I'm currently 5 degrees at idle which seems OK and steady on temp and engine speed.

Keith.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
melly-g

posted on 6/4/16 at 10:08 PM Reply With Quote
Is it possible to run without the stat for a while to see if that helps?
On my pinto the stat is on the pipe into the top of the rad, I know it's a different old school beast. Did they change things around to try and heat the engines up quicker to help with emissions?

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
Kdempsie

posted on 6/4/16 at 10:30 PM Reply With Quote
If you do choose to run without the stat for a while then you will need to block the bypass line to make sure you flow through the radiator and not just circulate round the head.

Worth trying to see the effect.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big-vee-twin

posted on 6/4/16 at 10:40 PM Reply With Quote
Optimum running temp for Duratec is 110 degrees according to Caterham, mine runs around 95-100.

Guage goes up to around 120 in traffic but stabilises with fan coming in/out.

Never seen oil less than 25psi goes higher when driving to about 40psi.

[Edited on 6/4/16 by big-vee-twin]





Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016

http://www.triangleltd.com

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
hkp57

posted on 7/4/16 at 06:44 AM Reply With Quote
Second vote for an electric water pump here.

With static air flow over the car not sucking anything out your vents the fan might not be moving much.

At 800rpm idle speed the water pump wont be optimal either.

Different engine I know but I use no thermostat in the block and have an elctric water pump with an adjustable thermostatic controller.

Works great and some say gives you back the power taken to drive the mechanical pump.

Not the cheapest bit of kit but I find it very effective.

http://daviescraig.com.au/

http://www.kitcarparts-scotland.co.uk/ep80-water-kit-water-pump-control-unit-pre-wired-relay-kit/

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/electric-water-pump-115-lmin-and-controller-kit

Added bonus as the pump continues to run after you shut the engine off after a hard thrash, stops any hot spots in the head etc as she cools.

[Edited on 7/4/16 by hkp57]





Fleet
SKC Raptor R - Hayabusa
Toyota C-HR Hybrid Limited Edition
Honda VFR1200 CrossTourer
DCT
Marlin Roadster 1800
Mercedes Vito 116 Sport

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
britishtrident

posted on 7/4/16 at 07:40 AM Reply With Quote
Changing the pump won't help if the radiator can't dump the heat energy faster than the engine produces it.
The cooling system is coping when the vehicle is moving which sugests there is no problem with radiator size
Apart from the checks I have already sugested you could check the outlet temperture from the radiator -- best way to do this a a two channel K-Type thermocouple with the thermocouplre junction tucked into the hoses on the rad inlet and outlet pipes.
I know this will be something you will have already checked but is the cooling fan roatating correctly.





[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
neilp1

posted on 7/4/16 at 03:06 PM Reply With Quote
Fan is correct way. I was toying around with changing to a pusher fan but not sure whether it would make a difference
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
adithorp

posted on 7/4/16 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote
It's probably worth re-routing your radiator bleed pipe so it rises all the way from the rad to the header tank. As it is the rad can't self bleed (top hose looks to slope down from the rad as well). Doesn't seem much but I've cured an overheating MNR Busa by just doing that and an MK with that plus replacing convoluted hoses with smooth bore.





"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire

http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
neilp1

posted on 8/4/16 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
Cheers for all the replies there
britishtrident - I never new that about the timing and I have run it up to temp on my drive with bonnet removed and it seemed fine.
When I IVA'd car during emissions test I got 140deg and 2PSI oil pressure and that's when I turned off. It was that hot that it melted 2 of the top front wishbone bushes. This is when I cut some vents in the bonnet.

Electric water pump - I think not as I'm spending nothing more on it. I spent money on new rad and fan 300 and oil cooler 220. I'll be divored if I spend anymore!

adithorp - I will re-route bleed pipe. Top hose has bend at front to miss the chassis rail. Will this make much of a difference.

I will try running without a stat after stoneleigh unless it goes pop on the way down as I'm away with work and not due home until 29th.

[Edited on 8/4/16 by neilp1]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
adithorp

posted on 8/4/16 at 01:08 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by neilp1
adithorp - I will re-route bleed pipe. Top hose has bend at front to miss the chassis rail. Will this make much of a difference.




Once you have the leed pipe re-routed that will allow any air in the rad to escape and the angle of the top hose won't matter. When the engine is revving there's probably enough flow to overcome the issue but not at idle.

Is the rad/nose-cone baffled? If not when stationary it could be drawing the hot air from the rad around the sides and back through the rad, rather than fresh cool air.





"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire

http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
neilp1

posted on 8/4/16 at 02:07 PM Reply With Quote
No baffle, thats something else I will do after stoneleigh!
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
davidimurray

posted on 9/4/16 at 07:29 PM Reply With Quote
Sounds like a strange issue you have as my Duratec runs cooler than my Pinto did. Rarely do I see more than 105C and the fan easily controls the temp.

Your setup looks virtually the same as mine. The only difference I have is that the top of the expansion bottle is linked to the port you have blocked on the water rail on the back of the head.

This may sound stupid, but I take it your thermostat is a mechanical one.

I am only running a clio rad so nothing special.





Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
ali f27

posted on 9/4/16 at 09:13 PM Reply With Quote
Mines a bu""er for air locking after i have had it drained take it for a ride it gets too hot let it cool down and it is ok for months untill you have the water out of it again never solved the probs why just lived with it
View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
neilp1

posted on 10/4/16 at 05:07 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by davidimurray
Sounds like a strange issue you have as my Duratec runs cooler than my Pinto did. Rarely do I see more than 105C and the fan easily controls the temp.

Your setup looks virtually the same as mine. The only difference I have is that the top of the expansion bottle is linked to the port you have blocked on the water rail on the back of the head.

This may sound stupid, but I take it your thermostat is a mechanical one.

I am only running a clio rad so nothing special.


I do have the mechanical stat. Do you have a pic of the back of the engine to top of expansion bottle?
Cheers Neil

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
neilp1

posted on 9/5/16 at 03:47 PM Reply With Quote
Just a quick update. It ended up being a bad Earth on engine. Now replaced and it's running spot on😀 Just in time for summer
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [ 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.