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Author: Subject: Megasquirt dead ? :(
DaveFJ

posted on 16/5/16 at 10:43 AM Reply With Quote
Megasquirt dead ? :(

Was running the car a little a couple of weeks ago - trying to get her ready for the summer... when she just died. Now have nothing - wont start and fule pumps don't run.

Started off looking at the Loom and have actually re-worked all the engine bay wiring as it was a bit of a mess.

However, still nothing

have proved that the pumps will run if power is supplied and that the fuel pump relay is working OK.
Have continuity for wiring back to MS
Confirmed that I have 12v supplied to correct pin on MS

Tried connecting a laptop to the serial port on the MS and cannot connect.
tried port checker and it cant make a connection either

so have come to conclusion that my MS may be dead
I do however have another issue which started at the same time but I cant see how it is related to fuel pumps not running:
Engine wont turn over I can occasionally here the starter relay click over but not always, can see a voltage drop when i try to start. but engine does not run over.... like i say -0 i think that is a separate issue and haven't started on that yet - just interesting it started at the same time as the other issues

So..........

Does anyone have a suitable STIM and could maybe test my MS to see if it is truly dead?

It is a V3 board running as MSnS running MSExtra code so no EDIS unit involved - driving a Zetec coil pack on my 2.1l Pinto.......
Unit is about 9 years old





Dave

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gremlin1234

posted on 16/5/16 at 11:24 AM Reply With Quote
first thing I would check is if there is 5volt on the board.
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coyoteboy

posted on 16/5/16 at 12:00 PM Reply With Quote
Yeah get it open and see if the main fuse or power circuit has failed internally - should be an easy fix if the fault that caused it has been removed.

[Edited on 16/5/16 by coyoteboy]





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DaveFJ

posted on 16/5/16 at 12:48 PM Reply With Quote
OK... I'm an electronics numpty

Needless to say I bought this fully built by someone competent!

So... any indication where I should check between on the main board for +5v ?

I can just about wield a multimeter but when faced by a circuit board like this my mind runs away to hide in its happy place!...





Dave

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DaveFJ

posted on 16/5/16 at 12:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Yeah get it open and see if the main fuse or power circuit has failed internally - should be an easy fix if the fault that caused it has been removed.

[Edited on 16/5/16 by coyoteboy]


I did notice when re-working the wiring loom that the diagrams call for the main supply to have a 2amp fuse and I, for some reason, saw fit to use a 5amp instead





Dave

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gremlin1234

posted on 16/5/16 at 01:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
OK... I'm an electronics numpty

Needless to say I bought this fully built by someone competent!

So... any indication where I should check between on the main board for +5v ?

I can just about wield a multimeter but when faced by a circuit board like this my mind runs away to hide in its happy place!...
the are a few places marked on the board as 5v,
BUT, this is not the place to learn electronics. as when it is running it is safety critical. (the engine will stop!)

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theduck

posted on 16/5/16 at 06:11 PM Reply With Quote
Have a word with ExtraEFI or James Murray Engineering.
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DaveFJ

posted on 16/5/16 at 07:40 PM Reply With Quote
Not trying to learn electronics just want to see if the MS is toast......

anyway.. the only place i could find +5v on the board was at the top of the proto area...
just tried testing from there to the Gnd next to it and get 0.51v ....

Tested the pin at the 37 way connector and currently have 11.89v there

conclusion? As I said in my first post, think i need someone with the right setup and STIM to test it properly.. Just knowing what a great bunch of knowledgeable guys we have on here I thought I would check if any of you had a test rig before going down the potentially expensive route.....











Dave

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coyoteboy

posted on 17/5/16 at 11:39 AM Reply With Quote
Find polyfuse F1

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual_files/v3board1.gif

Check for voltage either side of it. If you don't get 5v at either side of it, check for power at Pin1 of U5. Report back

Everything on an MS1 v3 board is replaceable by a monkey with a club fists - I'm pretty sure we can diagnose and instruct a repair The problem is if the fault still exists it'll be trickier to track down.

[Edited on 17/5/16 by coyoteboy]





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DaveFJ

posted on 17/5/16 at 07:47 PM Reply With Quote
OK...

Both sides of polyfuse F1 read +0.5v ....

Pin 1 on U5 has nothing at all

I would question my multimeter or my stupidity but I get 11.89v at whatever pin that is in the 37 way plug (i opened it up to be certain which connector the red wire was connected to )

Any ideas ?

much appreciate the input so far!





Dave

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gremlin1234

posted on 17/5/16 at 08:02 PM Reply With Quote
0.5v on the input indicates a fault on the psu side of things, - hence you don't need an ms specialist to help fault find, it's (probably) before it gets that technical.
I shall try to take another look at the ms v3 schematics to see any likely fault that might bring input 5v to 0.5

edit: do you have any higher res pictures of your board? so we could look for scorched components and such like?

[Edited on 17/5/16 by gremlin1234]

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DaveFJ

posted on 17/5/16 at 09:06 PM Reply With Quote
I can take more pics... I had a good look for any scorching and also took the board out and looked at the other side... couldnt see anything





Dave

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coyoteboy

posted on 17/5/16 at 09:44 PM Reply With Quote
Voltages on this what you have?

Potential  fails
Potential fails






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BaileyPerformance

posted on 18/5/16 at 07:36 AM Reply With Quote
We can repair it for you if you like?
We build / modify / repair / install megasquirts

NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Chris_Xtreme

posted on 18/5/16 at 07:54 PM Reply With Quote
I'd thoroughly recommend Bailey Performance....


on another note, I have a stim which worked to test mine a while back, Geoff from on here, used to have the v8 viento wilkingj made it.

don't ask me if it is what you need tho!

I'd post it to you for 30quid.

pic of stim

[Edited on 18/5/16 by Chris_Xtreme]

[Edited on 18/5/16 by Chris_Xtreme]

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DaveFJ

posted on 18/5/16 at 09:32 PM Reply With Quote
No garage time now until the weekend,,,, but will report back my findings as soon as i can spend more time on it

Thanks for all the advice...

My current thinking.... I have a couple of things to check further and may well take you up on the STIM...

If i prove that the MSnS is dead then I will see what you guys at Bailey can do to hopefully repair it


I have had one thought.... bearing in mind that I also cant get the engine to turn over....

Could I have toasted the battery in some way? I have checked it is pumping out 12v and have had it on a trickle charger.... The rad fan works (i have an override switch) and lights work... but just wondering if it could still be knackered? going to try to get hold of another batt to test with - although the wife is oddly reluctant to let me take the one out of her mercedes.. cant imagine why!

cheers all





Dave

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Schrodinger

posted on 19/5/16 at 07:25 AM Reply With Quote
You haven't disconnected an earth lead by any chance?





Keith

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DaveFJ

posted on 19/5/16 at 10:14 AM Reply With Quote
I did check them all after I reworked the engine bay wiring.. but it is on my list to check everything again.... you have me thinking now and doubting myself!
I rewired the Alternator and to get at it had to remove the engine earth strap.... I'm sure I would have put it back!!!!





Dave

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rusty nuts

posted on 19/5/16 at 06:38 PM Reply With Quote
Don't take the battery out of the Merc , it'll probably cause you all sorts of grief with lost codes etc
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DaveFJ

posted on 19/5/16 at 07:57 PM Reply With Quote
as it turned out - i did get a little garage time tonight

Good news is I am not a total numpty and i did reconnect the earth straps to the engine!

So...

checked all 5 earths coming from the MSnS - all good.

carefully checked all wiring in the plug - no issues i can see

tried checking all above again - no dice




as for the turning over issue... gave the solenoid a whack and can now here it click but still no attempt at turning over. removed plugs (managed to snap ceramic on 2 whist doing so! god they were tight!) and turned engine over by hand - so it isn't siezed at least!
intend to remove starter motor at weekend and see if there is another issue there....

As for the MSnS...

Think I might just send it off to be checked...... at least I can be sure then....

cheers for all your advice guys





Dave

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DaveFJ

posted on 21/5/16 at 03:55 PM Reply With Quote
Just fitted brand new Odyssey battery... still no joy...

going to contact Bailey and ship my MSnS to them to check/repair

A big thumbs up for Tayna batteries BTW... New Odyssey 680 battery. order at lunch time yesterday and delivered at 9am this morning! 85 including delivery

[Edited on 21-5-16 by DaveFJ]





Dave

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DaveFJ

posted on 22/5/16 at 10:33 AM Reply With Quote
Well I have an answer on the starter motor anyway... Its fubar!

tried to get ti to turn on the bench but nothing
cracked open the casing and large chucks of copper started falling out!
I can see that quite a few of the thick copper wires that run up to the windings have disintegrated....

so - Now looking for a replacement on eBay....

well that's one mystery solved at least!

strange coincidence that it should fail at the same time as the apparent failure of the MsnS !





Dave

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mark chandler

posted on 22/5/16 at 11:26 AM Reply With Quote
If the engine is not turning over megasquirt may appear to be dead as no revolutions causes it to shut down, best get it cranking first.
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coyoteboy

posted on 23/5/16 at 11:27 AM Reply With Quote
Fuel pump would kick in anyway, default action is to prime the pump (unless it's been disabled for some weird reason).

If there's 12v across the incoming pins of the MS at the DB37, it's the MS PSU that's at fault.





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DaveFJ

posted on 23/5/16 at 12:39 PM Reply With Quote
Now dispatched to Bailey Performance for check/repair...





Dave

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