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Author: Subject: Modern cars and servicing
joneh

posted on 21/5/16 at 10:50 AM Reply With Quote
Modern cars and servicing

Just done the service on my crappy Jeep. Why are modern cars such a ball ache to work on? Why bury the oil filter under an electrical connector, a metal bracket and an engine cover mount? All need to be removed before you can get to it and even then you need a 20mm socket extension.

Then there's the splash tray before you get to the sump plug. Six bolts and four annoying plastic trim clips that all ways snap. Even the air filter needs the whole airbox and pipe work unclipped.

Hay ho

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coozer

posted on 21/5/16 at 10:56 AM Reply With Quote
When I did the clutch on mine I thought I'd take the engine out and do belts and pumps and want not as well...

Only way to get the engine out is out the bottom, engine down and lift the car off it!! Gap between the slam panel and bulkhead too small......





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tegwin

posted on 21/5/16 at 10:56 AM Reply With Quote
Dont worry too much.... once we are all told we must have driverless cars "because they are safer" you won't be able to service your own car anyway as it would invalidate its autonomy license... Infact when the car needs a service it would probably drive itself to the garage and refuse to come back until you stump up for the cost...





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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 21/5/16 at 11:05 AM Reply With Quote
I can't wait for cars that drive themselves and sort out their own servicing. Both things that I hate doing myself.





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hizzi

posted on 21/5/16 at 11:08 AM Reply With Quote
i recently went against all i stand for and bought an oil suction pump that takes the oil out the dipstick hole. my volvo has a huge under tray thats nearly impossible to do on the floor even with a big jack. oh and it need a computer to change the rear brake pads
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britishtrident

posted on 21/5/16 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote
From watching some channels compared to europen cars modern American cars and trucks are much worse for access and have been so for a while. Nissan aren't much better. This is one of the reasons in the US they have much greater emphasis on high-tech sophisticated diagnostics than preventative maintenance by servicing.

On some US GM models the subfarme has to be dropped to access the alternator, the starter has to be removed to access the crankshaft sensor. On some Chrysler models the wheel and wheel arch liner has to be removed to access the battery. Chrysler electrical grounds and fuse box/central control modules seem to cause a disproportionate number of problems.
On most transverse V6 cars getting access to the rear sparking plugs and coil packs is difficult and in some US models virtually impossible. Fuel injectors are increasing buried below complex intake manifolds that have to be stripped down to even back probe the electrical connectors.

On the little Nissan Note 1.4 I look after changing the airfilter or spark plugs or coil packs involves some fairy major stripping down of the induction system. It also has an undocument hidden 3rd fuse box that requires removing the bumper grill head light and battery to access.

Back in the day I can remember climbing the engine bay and sitting on the inner wing when fitting new contact breaker points on my Dad's 63 Chevy Impala.

[Edited on 21/5/16 by britishtrident]





[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
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joneh

posted on 21/5/16 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
i recently went against all i stand for and bought an oil suction pump that takes the oil out the dipstick hole. my volvo has a huge under tray thats nearly impossible to do on the floor even with a big jack. oh and it need a computer to change the rear brake pads


Yeah I used one last year but thought I'd use the plug this year to get any sludge.

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steve m

posted on 21/5/16 at 12:15 PM Reply With Quote
"i recently went against all i stand for and bought an oil suction pump that takes the oil out the dipstick hole."

me too, a 12v jobby, that I was quite impressed with it as well

steve





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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coyoteboy

posted on 21/5/16 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Only way to get the engine out is out the bottom, engine down and lift the car off it!! Gap between the slam panel and bulkhead too small......


Same with my '91, Celica gt4, nothing new there.

And my 370z requires removal of plastic, strut braces, intakes, throttles and some hoses to do a plug change.





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rusty nuts

posted on 21/5/16 at 01:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
When I did the clutch on mine I thought I'd take the engine out and do belts and pumps and want not as well...

Only way to get the engine out is out the bottom, engine down and lift the car off it!! Gap between the slam panel and bulkhead too small......


Nothing new there,

When the classic mini was first released the official way to remove the engine was to drop the front subframe out of the bottom . The engine had to come out to fit a water pump on the very early ones due to not having a split fan housing.

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David Jenkins

posted on 21/5/16 at 01:28 PM Reply With Quote
I watched a programme about the Bentley Continental - to change the spark plugs you have to drop the entire engine and transmission, on a special rig that supports the body while all the oily bits are lowered. We can all guess how much that service would cost...





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Ivan

posted on 21/5/16 at 03:02 PM Reply With Quote
You can bet most dealers use a oil drain pump, but still charge for a new sump plug washer.
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prawnabie

posted on 21/5/16 at 03:09 PM Reply With Quote
i sit on the wheel to do most of the stuff on my 68 herald!
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big_wasa

posted on 21/5/16 at 03:10 PM Reply With Quote
I've just been doing the Mondeo ready for its mot next week.

Oil, filter, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, wiper blades and a couple of bulbs and what a pleasure to work on

But £15 per spark plug took the p1ss

[Edited on 21/5/16 by big_wasa]

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Adamirish

posted on 21/5/16 at 04:31 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I've just been doing the Mondeo ready for its mot next week.

Oil, filter, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, wiper blades and a couple of bulbs and what a pleasure to work on

But £15 per spark plug took the p1ss

[Edited on 21/5/16 by big_wasa]


Jesus! What plugs did you use?

I always bought genuine ford ones from Allen ford on the bay. Full set for the ST170 was about £20 iirc. Ford themselves were £18 each!





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DW100

posted on 21/5/16 at 05:00 PM Reply With Quote
The newer the car the worse they get. I'm a Dealer tech and the latest cars have no dip stick at all, not even the little hidden one. Oil level is checked on the diagnostic machine by an unstable laggy piece of software.

[Edited on 21/5/16 by DW100]

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britishtrident

posted on 21/5/16 at 05:07 PM Reply With Quote
Servicing doesn't exist any more normally no need to change spark plugs anymore. Oil changes are at 15,000 to 20,000 miles for petrol engines.
Brake checks at 30,000 miles plug changes usually not specified for many models.
Mazda say platinum plugs last the "life of the car" even Rover were 60,000 miles.
Antifreeze changes are generally at 7+ years





[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

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Toprivetguns

posted on 21/5/16 at 05:54 PM Reply With Quote
Servicing cars used to be a pleasurable job that took place on sunny Saturday morning.
Unfortunately that is a thing of yester year on modern cars.
I'm just upset my children will never have the pleasure of using a choke or manually winding windows up/down





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Irony

posted on 21/5/16 at 06:16 PM Reply With Quote
On my old seat ibiza 1.4 the oil filter is underneath the exhaust manifolds so you haveto reach round them to get it off. Also in five services I could nevereven ffind the fuel filter. Even after searching the Web for ages and posting on forums.
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on_eighty_runner

posted on 21/5/16 at 07:11 PM Reply With Quote
Serviced our 2009 Mazda 6 1.8 same engine as Mondeo I understand.
Plugs are 100,000 intervals so costly. Motor factor told me they were expensive @ €60 and "most people didn't bother"
Plugs on top of engine so easy to get to. (Plugs were immaculate when I removed so do they really need doing. The engine has misfire detection anyway??! )
Air filter required a hose removed but easy good visible access.
Oil filter on the front of the engine so good visible access.
There is an undertray with 12 bolts but has a door to access sump nut but not the oil filter!?!

I had a 2004 smart roadster coupe and was a mixed bag
MINOR SERVICE
No sump nut, so you must use an oil extract pump. Great access to oil filter so literally a 5 min job if oil was hot and hands stayed clean!

MAJOR SERVICE 15,000 miles!
Remove
Right and left side skirts brabus model.
Rear light clusters
Complete rear bumper clamshell
Remove right and left rear windows!
Change 6 plugs at about €80
Put it all back together
Do it all again 8 months later!

With a design life of 150,000 km or 100,000 miles and an oil interval of 30,000km/20,000 miles/ 2 years, a car will now only see 4 services in its life so it's less of a design priority now. That being said little things would make a big difference.


quote:
Originally posted by Adamirish
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I've just been doing the Mondeo ready for its mot next week.

Oil, filter, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, wiper blades and a couple of bulbs and what a pleasure to work on

But £15 per spark plug took the p1ss

[Edited on 21/5/16 by big_wasa]


Jesus! What plugs did you use?

I always bought genuine ford ones from Allen ford on the bay. Full set for the ST170 was about £20 iirc. Ford themselves were £18 each!

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britishtrident

posted on 21/5/16 at 07:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
On my old seat ibiza 1.4 the oil filter is underneath the exhaust manifolds so you haveto reach round them to get it off. Also in five services I could nevereven ffind the fuel filter. Even after searching the Web for ages and posting on forums.


It will be a Valeo return less fuel system filter is designed to last life of the car --- filter is combined with the pressure regulator and possibly one of the tank level sender units in the opposite side of the tank from the in tank pump.





[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]

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Slimy38

posted on 21/5/16 at 08:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I've just been doing the Mondeo ready for its mot next week.

Oil, filter, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, wiper blades and a couple of bulbs and what a pleasure to work on

But £15 per spark plug took the p1ss

[Edited on 21/5/16 by big_wasa]


I have to admit I did find my Mondeo a bit of fresh air to work on, although it was quite a shock to be replacing HT leads again! I'd got so used to coil on plug setups.

My plugs weren't that expensive though, I think about £8 apiece for NGK?

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19sac65

posted on 21/5/16 at 08:21 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
i recently went against all i stand for and bought an oil suction pump that takes the oil out the dipstick hole. my volvo has a huge under tray thats nearly impossible to do on the floor even with a big jack. oh and it need a computer to change the rear brake pads


On later volvos the oil level is supposed to be reset via volvo software too
And if its a d5 only fill to 70% set with the engine running
A simple oil change can take up to a hour as the level has to be set when the oil is at 70* so we usually take them for a run,then on the diag
PITA

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coyoteboy

posted on 21/5/16 at 10:32 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

Servicing doesn't exist any more normally no need to change spark plugs anymore. Oil changes are at 15,000 to 20,000 miles for petrol engines. 
Brake checks at 30,000 miles plug changes usually not specified for many models. 
Mazda say platinum plugs last the "life of the car" even Rover were 60,000 miles. 
Antifreeze changes are generally at 7+ years 



Maybe on econoboxes, but on the 370z used daily, oil changes every 3-9k, plugs are every 70k but they are 20 quid a pop.





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