Northpole
|
 posted on 12/6/16 at 01:21 PM |
|
|
Pipercross vs Airbox?
I have a Triumph Spitfire w/Hayabusa:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bb-kristinsson/26987947322/in/album-72157668450434305/
- First I modified the Hayabusa std airbox (made it a bit lower, as many have done) w/K/N and feeded a tube in to the front grill.
- Then I did this change, using the PX500. (Thought I would get more power, and great noice  , made a hole in the bonnet and the air filter sticking
a little bit out.
Maybe the airbox is better? Maybe the PX500 is better? But I am sure that after 100 mph the Pipercross is not feeding enough air to the engine. Which
is why I was going for the Scoop...
If any of you have knowledge of what is better PLS FEEL FREE to give me some good advice !
THANKS
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bb-kristinsson/26987947
322/in/album-72157668450434305/
Sigurjon Johannsson
Triumph Spitfire Mk3 1968 Hayabusa powered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln2Km9mVXYI
|
|
|
|
|
chris
|
| posted on 12/6/16 at 02:17 PM |
|
|
I would have to agree that pipercross restricts air flow had mine RR witout a filter on it couldn't stand the stench of fuel vapour so put my
piper air filter back on and the reduction in power was very apparent so binned it and don't run with air filter now I just don't go near
a naked flame after I have driven the kit
|
|
|
bi22le
|
| posted on 12/6/16 at 06:30 PM |
|
|
I would off thought that the optimum is the OEM airbox with cold unrestricted air supply.
Of course OEM expect a rounded noise vs cost vs torque vs power vs space compromise but it should provide a good set up.
I am actually looking to get an airbox fitted and ditch my px600 filter that pokes through the bonnet. The noise is quite excessive. It will be fed
with cold air and i expect the power to be similar.
As mentioned before, for max power run no filter at all. We all know the potential problems with this though!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
|
|
|
Northpole
|
| posted on 12/6/16 at 08:12 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
I would off thought that the optimum is the OEM airbox with cold unrestricted air supply.
Of course OEM expect a rounded noise vs cost vs torque vs power vs space compromise but it should provide a good set up.
I am actually looking to get an airbox fitted and ditch my px600 filter that pokes through the bonnet. The noise is quite excessive. It will be fed
with cold air and i expect the power to be similar.
As mentioned before, for max power run no filter at all. We all know the potential problems with this though!
Yes I agree that the OEM box would be better. Mr Suzuki has spend a lot of testing and money to optimize this engine.
I have tried both and I am sure on higher speed the OEM box is better, just removed the inside flap and made sure that lots of cold air will flow
inside by making much bigger intake hole in the box.
The problem with the Foam filter IMO is lack of air when going fast, the air moves away from the bonnet and the filter, which is not good. This was
quite clear when testing on the track. I achevied higher speed on the same distance with the Hayabusa box.
I do like the sound from the Foam filter but I need all the power I can get.
Sigurjon Johannsson
Triumph Spitfire Mk3 1968 Hayabusa powered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln2Km9mVXYI
|
|
|
phelpsa
|
| posted on 12/6/16 at 08:27 PM |
|
|
px500 is a bit small really, moving to a px600 made a few hp difference on our old car.
|
|
|
motorcycle_mayhem
|
| posted on 13/6/16 at 08:34 AM |
|
|
GSXR1000 experience in a Westfield. Same engine architecture, but smaller.
PX600 was superb, the best power output on the dyno, the best times on the track. Mapped with a PCIII, nothing fancy. Main difference to you (and the
essential one I guess) is that the PX600 fitted under the Megabusa (V8) bonnet, with the air intake of said bonnet feeding nicely. All covered up, but
still incredibly noisy (static dB OK, but driveby marginal). Without the bonnet on, it was well into the ear's threshold of pain,
unimaginable.
Suzuki airbox wasn't as good, dyno or track, regardless of various ducting to try and get air into it. It was also a nightmare to fit, although
the airbox is shallower than most, it still had to stick out of the bonnet. Really, really quiet though.
I thought a PX500 was too small for the 1000cc. I have no evidence to support this thinking though.
|
|
|
mcerd1
|
| posted on 13/6/16 at 09:26 AM |
|
|
In theory an airbox will almost always be better (as long as its well designed at least - remember the bike OE box is meant to work with the OE
exhaust too also it won't necessarily be designed to give you the torque / power in the places you want it)
The volume can be tuned to optimize your torque curve and the intake / filter can often be positioned in a better location too
Of course there are so many interrelated variables in this - so a sausage filter can just be the easy option
(I've got my ITG jc40 ready to fit to my carbs  )
Running without a filter will no doubt give you more on the dyno (were aerodynamics don't really come into it), but not necessarily any
significant gains in real driving. (Bare in mind that any changes to the intake setup will need a retune to get the most out of them)
The big problem with running without a filter is how much it will reduce the life of your engine - I remember reading about the testing that david
vizard did without filters - he reckoned that after a very short time on the track the dust, grit, rubber that got sucked in bad made some very
effective grinding paste inside the engine 
[Edited on 13/6/2016 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 13/6/2016 by mcerd1]
-
|
|
|
redturner
|
| posted on 13/6/16 at 05:37 PM |
|
|
The black top that I run in my single seater hill climb cars runs PX500 filter. It made 156 on the rollers with the only mods being the addition of R1
carbs on a DanSt manifold. I also run the original rubber trumpets as fitted on the bikes as I was informed that they run far better with these as
opposed to metal trumpets. Does any-one have an opinion on the fitting on these to the Zetec...
|
|
|
Northpole
|
| posted on 13/6/16 at 05:50 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
GSXR1000 experience in a Westfield. Same engine architecture, but smaller.
PX600 was superb, the best power output on the dyno, the best times on the track. Mapped with a PCIII, nothing fancy. Main difference to you (and the
essential one I guess) is that the PX600 fitted under the Megabusa (V8) bonnet, with the air intake of said bonnet feeding nicely. All covered up, but
still incredibly noisy (static dB OK, but driveby marginal). Without the bonnet on, it was well into the ear's threshold of pain,
unimaginable.
Suzuki airbox wasn't as good, dyno or track, regardless of various ducting to try and get air into it. It was also a nightmare to fit, although
the airbox is shallower than most, it still had to stick out of the bonnet. Really, really quiet though.
I thought a PX500 was too small for the 1000cc. I have no evidence to support this thinking though.
Thank you for the info!
I have been searching for this information, I am in fact very interested in using the Pipercross, as I like the sound and after several test runs, the
car feels faster from start to appr 90 mph with Pipercross. But adter that the Hyaybusa box is better. BUT as I started with here, I was planning to
make a scoop for the Pipercross to get more air at higher speeds
I understand that your car has a scoop in the bonnet, and that is very interesting for me. Is the power still there on higher speeds? Is the engine
getting enough air?
It is very tempting to try putting a scoop on the Pipercross filter, but it means drilling holes in the bonnet etc..
So after your tests, the std Hayabusa box is not as good as Pipercross WITH scoop?
Sigurjon Johannsson
Triumph Spitfire Mk3 1968 Hayabusa powered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln2Km9mVXYI
|
|
|
motorcycle_mayhem
|
| posted on 14/6/16 at 08:16 AM |
|
|
To reiterate, this is a GSXR1000, so your mileage will vary.
So many variables, in fact, that it's impossible to state what will work 'better' than anything else. Everything is a compromise.
My compromises were that I wanted the filter assembly to fit neatly under the superb Westfield bonnet scoop, that precluded the standard airbox
assembly. I was therefore willing to accept any slight loss performance, etc., to retain that completely covered arrangement. The big trade-off was
noise, it came close to being unacceptable in competition on the drive-by noise metering.
If I was to build/race another, I'd look at the Pipercross airbox, ducted.
I did confirm that the filter wasn't causing any static power loss issues, with a back-to-back comparison with the standard airbox on the
rolling road. There was no detriment. Wonderfully quiet though, lovely.
Please note: This is an early engine (K1-K6) arrangement, later engines (and particularly some Honda's I've seen) have the airbox as an
injector assembly too. This looks very intrinsic to the package and something I'd not want to dispense with. I'd have to work at retaining
it (however tall).
[Edited on 14/6/16 by motorcycle_mayhem]
|
|
|
Northpole
|
| posted on 14/6/16 at 08:49 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
To reiterate, this is a GSXR1000, so your mileage will vary.
So many variables, in fact, that it's impossible to state what will work 'better' than anything else. Everything is a compromise.
My compromises were that I wanted the filter assembly to fit neatly under the superb Westfield bonnet scoop, that precluded the standard airbox
assembly. I was therefore willing to accept any slight loss performance, etc., to retain that completely covered arrangement. The big trade-off was
noise, it came close to being unacceptable in competition on the drive-by noise metering.
If I was to build/race another, I'd look at the Pipercross airbox, ducted.
I did confirm that the filter wasn't causing any static power loss issues, with a back-to-back comparison with the standard airbox on the
rolling road. There was no detriment. Wonderfully quiet though, lovely.
Please note: This is an early engine (K1-K6) arrangement, later engines (and particularly some Honda's I've seen) have the airbox as an
injector assembly too. This looks very intrinsic to the package and something I'd not want to dispense with. I'd have to work at retaining
it (however tall).
[Edited on 14/6/16 by motorcycle_mayhem]
Thank you for your thoughts. I will have to do some more test driving and testing on both airboxes.
Sigurjon Johannsson
Triumph Spitfire Mk3 1968 Hayabusa powered
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln2Km9mVXYI
|
|
|
