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Author: Subject: Zetec Turbo
hazardpro

posted on 19/9/16 at 08:50 PM Reply With Quote
Zetec Turbo

Hi all!

Ive recently acquired a nice little IndyMK Zetec turbo (my first kit car) - likewise Im no mechanic (but Im keen!)

The turbo conversion was done 2 owners ago and on a old engine (which I was told later died due to fan dying and engine overheating).

It then had a brand new Zetec 2L black top installed about 5k ago. Ive been told the engine is stock and the turbo is turned right down (not had it dyno'd yes but at a guess Id say something like 150bhp).

On the old engine they had it dyno'd at 230bhp but I have no idea what mods the old engine had.

Ive been quoted around 1.5 - 2k to forge the engine for 190bhp + which they have said would be required in order to achieve that kind of power.

The car is running a custom map via a megasquirt v3 ECU

My questions are;

1. Anyone else running a Zetec Turbo conversion - what bhp and have you made mods to the engine to cope with the extra BHP or is it stock?
2. At what level would you say you need to do that kind if prep to the engine?
3. Ive been told the engine will be fine running it in its current state (with turbo turned right down).
4. I get a 'flutter' from the turbo as I come off the gas - is that normal?
5. What other mods could I do to the engine that will not require forging but will increase power / throttle response etc.

PS the throttle bodies on the engine do not look stock.... looks more like these to be honest but Im not 100% which they are:
http://www.kitspares.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=628

Thanks in advance for any help/input

Doug

[Edited on 19/9/16 by hazardpro]

[Edited on 19/9/16 by hazardpro]

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madteg

posted on 19/9/16 at 09:35 PM Reply With Quote
I run a 320BHP zetec turbo, the cheapest way is fit a de-compression plate with 2 pressed metal gaskets. Will have to fit ARP rod bolts. I ran like this for years, you will get 200BHP and it will be reliable. I have fitted forged silver top rods with little end reamed out to accept Vauxhall forged pistons , this will drop compression ratio down to 7.8:1. I use a TD04 turbo of subaru with 460cc injectors.
If you are ever passing Kettering i will take you for a blast.
Put this in youtube there a a couple of my vids ( kevin booth zetec turbo )

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hazardpro

posted on 19/9/16 at 09:42 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by madteg
I run a 320BHP zetec turbo, the cheapest way is fit a de-compression plate with 2 pressed metal gaskets. Will have to fit ARP rod bolts. I ran like this for years, you will get 200BHP and it will be reliable. I have fitted forged silver top rods with little end reamed out to accept Vauxhall forged pistons , this will drop compression ratio down to 7.8:1. I use a TD04 turbo of subaru with 460cc injectors.
If you are ever passing Kettering i will take you for a blast.
Put this in youtube there a a couple of my vids ( kevin booth zetec turbo )


Thanks for the reply - is that literally all I need to do ("fit a de-compression plate with 2 pressed metal gaskets and ARP rob bolts".

Eg fit that lot.... crank up the turbo and get it mapped?

I found these guys that can make the plate for you... http://www.ferriday.co.uk/

Doug

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madteg

posted on 19/9/16 at 09:49 PM Reply With Quote
Yes as long as you dont go to mad with the boost, i ran mine with just the de compression plate but did not change the rod bolts. It knocked a big end out but was plenty fast enough. I would suggest fitting a knock sensor as it will worn you against detonation. Look through my archive its all there. kev
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SteveRST

posted on 20/9/16 at 10:35 AM Reply With Quote
Where abouts are you doug? If you're in the SE then head over to the Southern Kit Car Club forum and come out for a run http://southernkitcars.com/forum/.

I'm running a 2.0 zetec turbo in my Westfield and also on Megasquirt 3 ECU. No mods to the engine apart from decompression plate and ARP rod bolts. Running 11.5 psi boost and never been professionally mapped but it's held together for 3 years now and 3 or 4 road trips to Europe. No idea of bhp but I'd guess at 200+. Standard decomp engine with proper mapping & intercooling should easily make well over 200. Check some of the vids on my YouTube channel.

I've tried that inlet manifold you posted a link to by the way. It broke/cracked pretty quickly so keep an eye on yours if it is the same.
What cooling do you have for the air from the turbo to inlet manifold? Post up an under-bonnet pic so we can have a look.

Are you sure that the engine is not already running a decomp plate as it is a very common mod to make? You should be able to see it between the head and block. Here is a pic of mine:


To be honest, there are many that think a decomp plate is not needed as long as the mapping is spot-on. Bailey Performance are the experts in this area.

Flutter from turbo when coming off throttle is normal (if you don't have a dump valve fitted). When you come off the gas the throttle body is suddenly closed and all that compressed air from the turbo suddenly has nowhere to go except back back through the turbo. The flutter is the sound off the compressed air travelling backwards across the turbo compressor blades as it tries to equalise pressure with the atmosphere outside. I love it

Do you have an O2 sensor connected to the exhaust? That'll tell you what air:fuel ratio your running, and is very useful if you want to get some info from the engine about how it is fueling.
Be good to see you ECU maps. If you download Tunerstudio you can record a datalog of the ECU functions while driving, and check that everything looks OK.

Steve





Westfield | 2.0 Zetec Turbo with MegaSquirt 3

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big_wasa

posted on 20/9/16 at 10:55 AM Reply With Quote
Another way, Instead of a decomp' plate you can get a genuine Ford 1.8mm headgasket for a Focus Rs with a heavily skimmed head. The silvertop gasket is the same 1.8mm and cheap. I would like to know how they stand up to boost ?
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hazardpro

posted on 20/9/16 at 11:23 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRST
Where abouts are you doug?


Hey Steve - Im in Worthing (nr Brighton)! So not too far. Ill get over to that forum too. Id be keen to find someone local that can assist me with these kind of mode as its all a bit beyond me lol

Ill take some pics of the engine too to see what you think.

thanks guys.

Doug

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SteveRST

posted on 20/9/16 at 12:08 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hazardpro
Hey Steve - Im in Worthing (nr Brighton)! So not too far. Ill get over to that forum too.


Hey Doug - there are a few SKCC members around Worthing and Brighton so definitely get yourself registered and say hi. I'm a bit further away in Chessington but often heading down south for a run out.

[Edited on 20/9/16 by SteveRST]





Westfield | 2.0 Zetec Turbo with MegaSquirt 3

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theduck

posted on 20/9/16 at 12:10 PM Reply With Quote
Are zetecs really this weak?
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lewis

posted on 20/9/16 at 12:21 PM Reply With Quote
I am from Worthing also & am currently getting all the bits together to turbo charge my 2.0l zetec.





I am a driving god!..........sort of

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lewis

posted on 20/9/16 at 12:25 PM Reply With Quote










I am a driving god!..........sort of

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jeffw

posted on 20/9/16 at 01:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRST
quote:
Originally posted by hazardpro
Hey Steve - Im in Worthing (nr Brighton)! So not too far. Ill get over to that forum too.


Hey Doug - there are a few SKCC members around Worthing and Brighton so definitely get yourself registered and say hi. I'm a bit further away in Chessington but often heading down south for a run out.

[Edited on 20/9/16 by SteveRST]


Come along to the SKCC driving day at North Weald next Friday and have a Pax lap in a number of cars





was 640 BHP per ton.....now 1127BHP per ton

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hazardpro

posted on 20/9/16 at 01:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
I am from Worthing also & am currently getting all the bits together to turbo charge my 2.0l zetec.


Hey Lewes

Right you and me need to hook up!!! lol Would love you to have a ganders if you are up for it?

Yours looks a bit neater than mine LOL

Doug

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lewis

posted on 20/9/16 at 04:47 PM Reply With Quote
Sounds good as we are both local,there is a company in littlehampton who might be able to help you ntdwm but they know zetecs & tuning them
http://www.devil-developments.co.uk





I am a driving god!..........sort of

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big_wasa

posted on 20/9/16 at 05:11 PM Reply With Quote
Mine so far.



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hazardpro

posted on 20/9/16 at 06:57 PM Reply With Quote
Here is mine...





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hazardpro

posted on 20/9/16 at 07:27 PM Reply With Quote
Forgot to ask is it easy enough to retro fit a boost gauge? Id be interested to know when psi i'm running....
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SteveRST

posted on 21/9/16 at 11:41 AM Reply With Quote
Lewis - Who made your inlet manifold/plenum?



quote:
Originally posted by hazardpro
Forgot to ask is it easy enough to retro fit a boost gauge? Id be interested to know when psi i'm running....


Yes, very easy. Boost gauge simply needs a tube connecting it to the inlet plenum.
You likely already have something taking a pressure reading from the plenum - the fuel pressure regulator and the Megasquirt ECU. You can use a T-piece to tap in to one of these lines but make sure there are no leaks!

Most accurate way of seeing what boost your running, is to take a datalog from the ecu. Then you are actually seeing/recording the boost pressure that the ECU is seeing during a drive. You have an MS3 ecu right? You can plug an SD card straight in to it and datalog to that. Something to look at when you get more familiar with it all.





Westfield | 2.0 Zetec Turbo with MegaSquirt 3

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hazardpro

posted on 29/11/16 at 07:26 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveRST
Where abouts are you doug? If you're in the SE then head over to the Southern Kit Car Club forum and come out for a run http://southernkitcars.com/forum/.

I'm running a 2.0 zetec turbo in my Westfield and also on Megasquirt 3 ECU. No mods to the engine apart from decompression plate and ARP rod bolts. Running 11.5 psi boost and never been professionally mapped but it's held together for 3 years now and 3 or 4 road trips to Europe. No idea of bhp but I'd guess at 200+. Standard decomp engine with proper mapping & intercooling should easily make well over 200. Check some of the vids on my YouTube channel.

I've tried that inlet manifold you posted a link to by the way. It broke/cracked pretty quickly so keep an eye on yours if it is the same.
What cooling do you have for the air from the turbo to inlet manifold? Post up an under-bonnet pic so we can have a look.

Are you sure that the engine is not already running a decomp plate as it is a very common mod to make? You should be able to see it between the head and block. Here is a pic of mine:


To be honest, there are many that think a decomp plate is not needed as long as the mapping is spot-on. Bailey Performance are the experts in this area.

Flutter from turbo when coming off throttle is normal (if you don't have a dump valve fitted). When you come off the gas the throttle body is suddenly closed and all that compressed air from the turbo suddenly has nowhere to go except back back through the turbo. The flutter is the sound off the compressed air travelling backwards across the turbo compressor blades as it tries to equalise pressure with the atmosphere outside. I love it

Do you have an O2 sensor connected to the exhaust? That'll tell you what air:fuel ratio your running, and is very useful if you want to get some info from the engine about how it is fueling.
Be good to see you ECU maps. If you download Tunerstudio you can record a datalog of the ECU functions while driving, and check that everything looks OK.

Steve


Had any issues with clutch Steve? Since cranking mine up (now 193bhp) my clutch is starting to go. not sure if I need to consider upgrading it.
Doug

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SteveRST

posted on 30/11/16 at 09:52 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hazardpro
Had any issues with clutch Steve? Since cranking mine up (now 193bhp) my clutch is starting to go. not sure if I need to consider upgrading it.
Doug


Hi Doug, What clutch are you running? The standard zetec clutch won't take too much torque. When I was looking in to it a common mod was to have the flywheel drilled to accept a Pinto Sierra clutch. It has a stronger diaphram than the zetec clutch.

Anyway, that is what I went with. Pre-drilled Mondeo flywheel from Retro Ford http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/content/zetec-rwd-flywheel-z015 and bought the Pinto clutch from them too.

Now I do find I get clutch slip occasionally but quite rare. If you're going for say 240 lb.ft+ then I'd say you'd need a stronger (more expensive!) solution.





Westfield | 2.0 Zetec Turbo with MegaSquirt 3

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hazardpro

posted on 1/12/16 at 09:52 PM Reply With Quote
The original engine on the car was a 1.6 Pinto. I have no idea what clutch is it in but Im guessing donor car was a Sierra.

Had a chat with the guys at Dunnell who said they can sort a track/race spec lightweight flywheel and clutch for around 400

Ive read so much do's and dont's about the decomp 'mod' - some say its a create budget mod, others say its no good....some say it works but you have to shim the head and bottom end first etc. so many different views.... totally confused which is the best route...

I might just bite the bullet and forge the engine and be done with it. That seems the only true failsafe way... Then my Achilles heel will be the gearbox... but I believe that can be upgraded too if need be.

I was going to ask, ive seen some guys on here with 300+bhp... surely there must be a point where these kit cars have a limit, in regards to frame strength etc.?

Also what about props and rear diffs? Do they have a limit I also need to consider?

PS Im only looking at <250bhp (but close to it)..... I know a few owners ago my car was running at 235bhp.... id be happy with that.

All advise welcome!

Doug

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