sam919
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| posted on 13/12/16 at 06:26 PM |
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3.1-1 English CWP sets
Thought id post in here also, I'm trying to get some of the above CWP sets, for the ford english axle.
It will be a 3.1:1 ratio so good for bike engine installs and a cruising gear in a car installation:
CEC - Revs at 3000 using a 0.87 type 9 5th (there are others) on a 205/60/13 = 75mph
Or a 1.0 6th ala Caterham box as above = 65 mph
BEC - Using the calculator on the locost site in the BEC forum, all at 6000rpm:
ZX9 - 68mph
ZX12 - 78MPH
98 Fireblade - 74mph
CBR1000 - 68mph
R1 - 72 mph
Busa - 77mph
Roughly speaking you have 10mph more for cruising than with the lowest available 3.54 CWP, at the same rpm. Or you could look at approx 1000rpm drop
for the same speed i.e. 7000rpm would be the above speeds.
All above bikes will have different model years so may change eg the Busa doesnt show if its a Gen 1 or Gen 2.
If we can get 10 people the sets are around £500.
Ill be posting on other forums as well to see if numbers can be raised, of course more than 10 will be cheaper as well, the costs are in tooling set
up.
Please phone for details and i can run through the process.
Regards
Sam
07740 684 186
PS - I can maybe get the VAT off, so we can reduce the costs.
[Edited on 13/12/16 by sam919]
[Edited on 13/12/16 by sam919]
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arrow-engineering
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| posted on 13/12/16 at 10:00 PM |
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i've just fitted one of the new 3.3 english cwps for a customer.
the casing needed major grinding to fit the bigger pinion head in so if you are planning a run keep an eye on the dimensions!
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adithorp
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| posted on 13/12/16 at 10:01 PM |
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3.1 might prove a bit long for a BEC. 3.14 Sierra diff only really works for a BUSA or ZX12. My R1 has a 3.21:1 Freelander diff and thats borderline
too high getting away.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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sam919
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| posted on 13/12/16 at 10:45 PM |
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It depends on tyre choice. 3.1-1 for track use is needed for top end when most diffs have ran out. What tyres are you using on your R1 and is it road
use? ADR ran BMW engines with a BMC diff and went down to 2.9 for top end performance. The difference between 3.21 and 3.1 is negligible, it's a
couple of mph at the speeds suggested below.
What wheel and tyre choice is the 3.3 with and what use is it for?
This is the lowest you can go with gearing and teeth count, any lower and the set is too big for the casing as suggested.
The 3.14 works well with the current CBR1000 engine, as well as others, as said its top end where it's needed. To be more appealing across the
board CEC benefit as well from the gearing especially if currently fitted with 3.54-1. 3.3-1 a good compromise.
From personal experience both busa gen 1 in a fury and 919cc blade units both required longer gearing, the busa ended up with larger wheels and lower
profile tyres which in turn affected the handling due to lack of sidewalk movement.
The 3.1-1 offers an alternative and lowest ratio for an English axle before you have to start looking at changing diffs altogether.
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adithorp
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 12:39 PM |
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I'm runnung a 5vy through Freelander 3.21:1 with 205/60/13" rears. It'll hit 70+ in first and geared to just shy of 150 in top.
I've been past 140, though it's creeping up after 135mph and I doubt it'll get to the limiter without a following wind. And yes my
speedo is calibrated and does match sat-nav speed. On track I could live without 6th at most circuits but when touring the 3.21 gives a decent
cruising RPM so overall a good compromise.
I seem to remember Andy Bates telling me that although the CBR1000 engined Arione hit the limiter with a 3.38/3.36 on really long straights, that the
3.14 was too high on the rest of the circuit and lap times were slower.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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sam919
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 01:59 PM |
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Could you confirm all gear ratios for your box, final drive ratio and rev limit. I remember the R1 having a long 6th and 5th being nearer the same
ratios as the CBR 5th.
I'm using a CBR 1000 with a 1.138 6th and 1.717 final drive ratio, and its revs out at 120mph with a 3.54.
Could you also confirm the Arion wheel and tyre size?
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adithorp
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 03:38 PM |
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R1 5vy (04-06) has primary reduction of 1.5 and 1st around 2.5 and 6th 1.27 from memory. Rev limit is 13750
No idea what tyre size Andy is running on the Arione
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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sam919
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 05:05 PM |
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Longer final drive, and longer 6th which explains your previous figures.
The 3.1-1 maybe not for your requirements but its certainly helps out other bike engine and car engine options with lower gearing then the R1 in the
guise you have.
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TimC
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 05:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Longer final drive, and longer 6th which explains your previous figures.
The 3.1-1 maybe not for your requirements but its certainly helps out other bike engine and car engine options with lower gearing then the R1 in the
guise you have.
The 5VY and 4C8 R1s are the only viable option for a 3.54 CWP so your offer is going to be way off for the likes of me.
Arion runs 205/60/13. I'm a bit surprised that you want to go to 3.1 with a CBR1000RR. Is this in a Caterham?
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sam919
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 07:41 PM |
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Ok that's Interesting.
It's in a Mallock mk27SG.
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chillis
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 08:50 PM |
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With regard to cruising speeds you generally don't need as tall a ratio as you might think, based on gear calculators. Torque is the key here.
If the ratio is too tall then you end up forever changing up and down between top and the next gear down. Cruising speed in top needs to be right
where peak torque is.
For out and out racing you may want a taller diff but again often the time lost around the slower sections where the engine doesn't have the
torque may wipe out the small gain at the end of a long straight. If you're visiting different tracks you'll need different diffs anyway.
Never under estimate the ingenuity of an idiot!
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sam919
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| posted on 14/12/16 at 09:07 PM |
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The dynamicly changing diff ratio!!
I'm sure everyone has there own view on what's what. But this is more to see numbers for a run of CWP sets.
Up to four sets already.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 08:28 AM |
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3.1 only works with the busa engine if it's been stroked or you're 20" slicks. Otherwise you're better off it a 3.3.
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sam919
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 10:50 AM |
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Sets have been made before and used with the Busa unit, they are running fine with no issues. There was someone on this forum actually after a longer
diff ratio, around 2.8/ 2.9. Three sets were made before but the costs were higher than this batch, but... proven track performance.
As mentioned before the busa unit was used in a fury, mistral tuned and it needed longer final gearing, it used a 3.38 freelander diff and ran out of
revs.
This is re run of sets for those interested in the 3.1, not really a discussion of personal preferences, the input is valued.
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PumaWestie
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 10:47 PM |
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I know of someone who uses a 3.1 diff in an English axle on a Busa powered car. I believe the CWP were made by a firm in Leicester who machine stuff
for Quaife
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Ian60D
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| posted on 17/12/16 at 01:19 PM |
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Sam I am interested in a set.
I replied in the BEC forum but thought I bets add my name here.
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sam919
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| posted on 18/12/16 at 04:17 PM |
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Hi Ian,
Ok ill add you to the list. The company is based in Scotland.
Regards,
Sam
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