viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 08:24 AM |
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duratec lambda position
Good morning,
After many months of testing it now has come clear the lambda sensor is to far from the engine, which is why I can only see it switching 3-4 times in
a 15 second window. (lambda 117cm from engine)
I have proven this by fitting the original exhaust manifold and bodged an exhaust together. Switches 10+ times in a 15 second window. (lambda 37cm
from engine.)
My question is, will a tuning company be able to make change's to my OEM ecu to over come my problem of the lambda being to far away.
OR
Do I scrap my exhaust manifold (4 branch, long primaries and exits out the bonnet and down the side of car to a collector ) and make a new 1 with the
collector/merger as close to the engine as possible.
sorry if this is confusing.
Cheers.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 10:21 AM |
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Presuming this is a narrow band sensor?
Can your ECU support a wide band sensor?
As these need to be positioned further away from the engine to to work correctly 
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viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 10:25 AM |
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ford standard ecu and sensor (narrow band)
I believe the wideband sensor would be used for tuning not everyday use.
cheers.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 10:35 AM |
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Is there a heater in the standard sensor?
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viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 11:14 AM |
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yep
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CosKev3
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 11:27 AM |
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And it's working?
Can only be a heat issue surely if it's working correctly once moved closer to the engine?
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viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 12:26 PM |
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Your correct.
My question is can a mapping company change the parameters of the ecu to accommodate this.
If not then I know I need to change my exhaust design i:e use the original exhaust manifold from the donor car/st150 and have the exhaust exit out the
side panel.
Currently my exhaust exits above the top rail through the bonnet with the collector (lambda position) halfway down the side panel.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 02:21 PM |
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I have an LC1 much further away than that, works fine. Placed where the headers come together as a single pipe.
My headers go over the rail through the bonnet.
I'm using Megasquirt to run the engine. I think you would be much better off dumping the Ford ECU and getting a aftermarket one that can be
tuned.
[Edited on 21/12/16 by big-vee-twin]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 02:34 PM |
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I know using an after market ecu will solve the problem but correct me if I'm wrong but no one has been able to get the duratec to work off the
standard ecu, so I see this as a challenge and I believe once I have sorted the exhaust out I would have achieved this for not a lot of money, granted
I am limited to performance mods but I should be able to achieve the 200hp figure running standard management.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 05:17 PM |
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Sounds like a heat issue it could also be the sensor tip is not fully in the gas flow at low speeds.
You could try some heat wrap on the headers, it makes a big difference to how quickly the lambdas kick in and huge differerence to the under bonnet
temp.
[Edited on 21/12/16 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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viceface
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 06:29 PM |
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Im using heat wrap.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 07:47 PM |
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Mine was the same set up on a Zetec and it worked fine.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 21/12/16 at 10:05 PM |
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How do you expect to reach 200hp with standard ecu when it cannot be tuned.
I have achieved nearly 200 with free flowing exhaust and Jenveys. But those minor mods necessitate tuning on a rolling road.
Not critising just interested.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 12:11 AM |
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Provided the engine is running close loop and may well be withing limits.
One test you can do is pull the lambda output in either direction and watch what happens to the lambda output and fuel trims as the lambda output is
allowed return to normal closed loop idle.
To do this you can force the lambda lean by creating a vacuum leak, the check it the other way by by feeding the engine propane,
Have you got a Cat and a downstream Lambda? if so looking at the downstream Lambda B1S2 and doing a reseve oxygen test will tell you if the Cat is
getting the right conditions to work.. If the cat is working you have god emissions.
If the Cat is working the downstream Lambda output will not follow the oscillations of the upstream Lambda. The reserve oxygen test involes forcing
the engine rich for several seconds then allowing it to return to normal closed loop. When the engine is forced rich both upstream and downstream
sensors should show around 0.8 volts. When the enrichment is removed the upstream sensor should go immediately go lean, the downstream should then
go lean after a delay of 1+ seconds. The longer the delay the better.
Normal Hot Idle Green Trace Upstream Lambda Blue Downstream. Lambda
Snap Throttle repsonse showing reserve oxygen delay
I would also check the total of the fuel trims (STF+LTF) is less tha 10%
[Edited on 22/12/16 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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viceface
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 06:45 AM |
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I may have mis read some tunning guides with regards to the 200hp figure but im sure the ecu can be tunned to a certain degree.
At the minute im just trying to get it to run reliably using standard mangement which brings me back to the question, can a tuning company sort the
parameters of the ecu out allowing me to run the lambda in it current position.
If not whats everyones thoughts to putting the lambda sensor in just 1 of the primarys. Basically 12 inches from the head.
I appreciate it will not get a reading from all 4 cylinders but assuming theres nothing wrong them i cant see it being a problem.
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viceface
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 06:48 AM |
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The car is running upstream and downstream lambda sensors but no cat.
The downstream needs to be in as the ecu does not like it when you disconnect it.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 06:57 AM |
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The ECU will complain about not having a Cat as soon as you run a drive cycle, on 99 percent of engines the downstream sensor has only one purpose
hat is to check the cat is present and working.
[Edited on 22/12/16 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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viceface
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 07:04 AM |
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That is true that the rear one is solely there to make sure the cat is working. The car runs fine without the cat but obviously puts a fault code up.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 12:56 PM |
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The oem ecu is mapable. You will buy an of the shelf map from the likes of Bluefin or Dream science and the ecu will adapt a little for the exhaust
but only expect around 15bhp.
There is a firm fully custom mapping them but I would go aftermarket first and I love running engines on these ecu's.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/12/16 at 04:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by viceface
That is true that the rear one is solely there to make sure the cat is working. The car runs fine without the cat but obviously puts a fault code up.
The downstream cat is really there just to check the CAT is working and has not been removed. The ECU compares the upstream and downstream sensor
each time the car is driven. If the downstream sensor is following the upstream the monitoring test is failed. The system self test durring each
drive cycle and without a working cat a P0420 is generated after a handful of drive cycles. Any fault that stops the cat from working such as a
misfire or vacuum leak can ca In many states in the USA the emission test is entirely done by plugging into the diagnostic socket.
see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyVnhCIMDnw
[Edited on 22/12/16 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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snapper
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| posted on 23/12/16 at 09:36 AM |
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Standard ECU can be tweaked to produce 180bhp on a standard setup using Ford/Mountune software
Getting your hands on it is the difficult matter.
It will be interesting to see what changes you can make to the engine can be accommodated by the standard closed loop system
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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