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Author: Subject: Haynes on Robin Hood, etc.
topcat2vin

posted on 13/1/17 at 04:33 PM Reply With Quote
Haynes on Robin Hood, etc.

Hi all, new to forum but have been looking into building a kit car for a while. Ideally I am looking to start with a small budget and was looking for an unfinished project to take on. From reading some cars seem easier to build than others and I was looking some recommendations. I am competent and have some mechanical knowledge however this is engine only and on large scale engines.

Which is a better kit for starting and which will be technically easier?

Haynes Roadster (mk1 or MK2)
Robin Hood 2b
Something else??

(I hadn't considered westfield etc. because of budget.

Thanks for the help.

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JacksAvon

posted on 13/1/17 at 05:01 PM Reply With Quote
Unless you want to acquire and honorary degree in Engineering and Mental Health, I would stay well away from a 2b at all costs.
Or, you like a really uphill struggle/challenge where most things don't fit and you enjoy developing an engineering a solution.

Unless you can get a pro built Haynes chassis, don't touch any of the home brewed variety. Or, this could lead to the consumption of much home brew.

Look at the the budget end of the market from well known manufacturers.

All the above will always depend upon your budget.





The sickness started in 2001 with a Robin Hood 3A, Prelit Westy,Tiger Cub, Tiger Avon, Tiger R6, 16v Mini, Sylva Fury Fireblade, Westfield Sei, Mallock Mk11, Fireblade Locost, Tiger Avon, Procomp LA Gold, Mk26 Mallock...........and now a Mk18 Mallock

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SCAR

posted on 13/1/17 at 06:08 PM Reply With Quote
Budget kits used to be cheap mainly because they used large chunks of the donor car and scrap yard parts as a result they could often be disappointing dynamically and aesthetically. Todays budget kits tend to use more bespoke parts so there is less scope for the manufacturers to offer a cheap alternative to the established brands. On the plus side even at the cheaper end todays kits are more likely to be capable of being built and should give a performance to match their looks.
Given that the donors of the past have all but gone or are now worth far more than a completed kit using an MX5 seems to have become the best option for a seven style kit.
Whatever you choose it will difficult to get away with sub 6K, your more likely to need 10k and its very easy to up the spec a bit and spend 12k plus

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garyt

posted on 13/1/17 at 07:27 PM Reply With Quote
Hi if you are wanting to do it on budget as you go forward spreading the cost out and adding funds as they become available then for a Haynes look at talons Haynes chassis for an mx5 donor , this would give you engineering peace of mind for the integrity of the chassis as funds allow you can add the wishbones etc, an mot failed mx5 of various spec are available relatively cheaply and you can strip it and get most of the mechanicals / electrics that you need , bodywork is available from a few different suppliers
So yes you can spread the cost out and there are a wealth of knolage and help on the various forums. I spread the cost of my build out and am on the road now tweaking to get to the final image in my head
If you have any questions fire away of message me, incidentally I have no connection with any of the companies who produce parts
Take the step you won't regret it , just be aware that doing it this way will take a bit longer than buying a "kit"
Gary





remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!

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topcat2vin

posted on 13/1/17 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote
Haynes or Robin Hood, etc.

Thanks guys for the comments. I was thinking about the RH but now am doubting this. I know they had a little extra fabrication / adjusting but I hadn't taking it to be as if not more difficult than the haynes.

With the Haynes is the Ron or Chris model better, any thoughts?

Also any other cars worth considering?


I would like to get a pre-built chassis but in Ireland I am not sure there are available.

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garyt

posted on 13/1/17 at 08:35 PM Reply With Quote
Chris Gibbs for the Haynes Phil at talon does a flat pack chassis kit as well which could be shipped but any which way getting a kit sent out is going to cost a bit
Before going any further.can you weld ? If so then the book and a local steel stockist is the way forward, before committing to steel what donors are available locally ? And what do you want spec wise
Not being negative but trying to help you make a positive start
If you go on the Haynes forum there is a lad in Ireland building on there, as I said ask as many questions as you need to no matter how daft or trivial they sound
Gary





remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!

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topcat2vin

posted on 13/1/17 at 09:03 PM Reply With Quote
Haynes or Robin Hood, etc.

Yes I can weld, but i am only using a hobby mig, given the steel has a 2mm wall I am taking it this will do OK. As I said I can do engine rebuilds on large genset engines so the engine end shouldn't be to bad but I have never done any serious car work - suspension, brakes, axles, etc.
Looking at the donor situation, cheap Sierra's are like hens teeth around here. I am think of trying the scrap yards but I am assuming I would have to pay big there. As that is the case I am likely looking for an MX5 MOT failure - should be doable but will take a while.

Looking a road car with a little comfort - no bike engines, etc.

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Edwardo

posted on 13/1/17 at 09:12 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JacksAvon
Unless you want to acquire and honorary degree in Engineering and Mental Health, I would stay well away from a 2b at all costs.
Or, you like a really uphill struggle/challenge where most things don't fit and you enjoy developing an engineering a solution.


Absolutely agree with the above! I'm coming towards the end of a 2B build as my first foray into kit building. I've got an Engineering degree (not sure about the mental health lol) but am still finding it very painful having to redesign and refit every single item on it - literally! It really is a terrible-terrible design budget or not to be totally honest.

I've come too far now with it so have to finish, but with hindsight, starting over I would buy a proper pro-made chassis like a Talon Haynes Roadster or GBS Zero (if it could be picked up cheap enough).

Cheers
Tony

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garyt

posted on 13/1/17 at 09:14 PM Reply With Quote
Ok I used a 140 welder with gas not gas less keep an eye on gumtree or any selling sights for a cheep mx5 probably the whole thing for coca 500 then any good panels can be sold on rotten chassis legs and sills are common but we don't want them bits any way
There are a few differences to the book for the mx5 diff so have a look and download the Saturn plans again they are on the Haynes forum or I can copy and email you them , get a copy of the book and study compare suspension and brakes are straight forward take your time work logically and if unsure just ask have a look at my build thread and photo archive
Oh and the other fella is in Dublin





remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!

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topcat2vin

posted on 15/1/17 at 11:13 AM Reply With Quote
Haynes or Robin Hood, etc.

Looking around there is some chance of getting an MX5 MOT failure.

Can you also use the MK2 for the haynes roadster or will this require some modification. If so has much / what mods are required?

Thanks Guys

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garyt

posted on 15/1/17 at 11:46 AM Reply With Quote
Yes you can I used the mk2.5 2003 model ,there are some wiring issues and I modded and used the dash as some of the ecu wiring runs through the dash instruments basically they are the same I think there were some changes to the uprights mm 1 to mm2 but if using all components from the same car you know they will match also if buying a complete car you stand a good chance of an age related plate rather than a q plate just remember to chop out the vin plates (proof) and sorn it





remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!

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garyt

posted on 15/1/17 at 11:50 AM Reply With Quote
If you want have a read through my build thread and photo archive and you will se how I got on some times the pictures are more helpful , the mk2 rocker cover doesn't have the vvt bits on the top so don't worry about that





remember we are not mad just creatively insane !!!!!

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topcat2vin

posted on 17/1/17 at 09:55 AM Reply With Quote
Haynes or Robin Hood, etc.

I thought I was heading towards the Haynes route but I have come across a part built robin hood 2b with the majority of the parts to finish. At present I think the main running gear is installed.

I assume with unknown history you would be better stripping back and rebuilding. Given the parts supplied and the fact the some of the build has been carried out would would it be a sensible alternative the the haynes?

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SCAR

posted on 17/1/17 at 11:45 AM Reply With Quote
You wont have to look far to find a part built 2B. They were the cheapest kits available so loads got sold, many to people who were never going to be able to build them. It might be worth considering why so many don't get finished. Cars advertised as 90% complete are usually about 30% complete, all the awkward bits are what's left to do although the car may look well advanced. Don't expect too much from the finished product as performance and handling were not the manufacturers priority, everything about these cars revolved around making the kits as cheap as possible so lots of design/manufacturing compromises were made. They are not a "bolt together " kit
Before someone else points it out I know some people have built excellent examples.

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mcerd1

posted on 17/1/17 at 04:11 PM Reply With Quote
if your even thinking about a robin hood then you'll want to know which version your getting before you buy
this thread will let you ID the chassis version - there is more than one kind of 2B around !

http://nw.rhocar.org/identification.htm


the 2B chasssis tried to swap a light weight space frame for heavy bent tubes with very little triangulation:


then add in the entire sierra rear subframe (very heavy) and you've got a very heavy car with suspension designed for a totally different car - that also manages to not be very strong or stiff..... but they are cheap

the sliding pillar version of the 2B is particularly horrible and would take a significant effort to replace with proper front suspension (a lot of the part built ones are this type for a reason)


I don't doubt that with enough time, effort and cash it could be made a fair bit better, but it'll never be as good as the other cheap cars with proper space frame chassis.

[Edited on 17/1/2017 by mcerd1]





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