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Author: Subject: Child passenger.
ollycutts1982

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:34 PM Reply With Quote
Child passenger.

Good afternoon guys, first post so any help would be appreciated.

Just putting my Westfield on the road, first time in 2 years, dues to the family expanding. I was wondering if anyone knew the law regarding child passengers in the car?

Any help would be greatly received

Thanks in advance

Olly

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SJ

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:39 PM Reply With Quote
I used a booster with my kids when they were very small, but I felt once they were bigger than 5 or 6 they were safer without. I've never had any interaction with the police though.
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loggyboy

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:46 PM Reply With Quote
Children must normally use a child car seat until they’re 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first.





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ollycutts1982

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:47 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for the reply.

I have had my 10 year old in it previously but it was just with the change in the law recently I wondered if anyone could shed any light, the last thing I want is hassle when I'm out and about.

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ollycutts1982

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Children must normally use a child car seat until they’re 12 years old or 135 centimetres tall, whichever comes first.


This is what I mean, is it legal to put a child seat in if it is secured correctly?

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loggyboy

posted on 27/3/17 at 02:58 PM Reply With Quote
The change in law was about boosters with backs, but was a law about selling them not using them. You can use a normal backless booster if you still have it, you just cant buy them anymore.
Min age to use a booster is based on weight IIRC.

[Edited on 27-3-17 by loggyboy]





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nick205

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:08 PM Reply With Quote
When I had my MK Indy I fitted my 4 yr old son's Graco seat (booster with a back) in the passenger seat. It fitted fine and I took him to pre-school (3 miles). I don't honestly know what the law is on this and drove slowly and very carefully with him aboard. Needless to say he enjoyed it immensely and wanted to go again. Sadly I sold the car shortly after his ride so it didn't happen. I didn't see any police when he was aboard.






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ken555

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:20 PM Reply With Quote
My worry, is none of the seats are designed for Harnesses.

But saying that, I was planning on using the base type booster (7 year old kid) with the harness on a Kirkey style seat on a 900mile round trip at the start of May.

Just planning on not attracting too much police attention and hoping for the best.






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David Jenkins

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:26 PM Reply With Quote
I'd like to take my grandson out, but if I use a booster seat he's still likely to pop out of the shoulder straps of the 4-point harness because they're spaced for adults. With an ordinary lap-and-diagonal belt the booster raises the child so that the diagonal goes correctly across the chest.





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ollycutts1982

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:30 PM Reply With Quote
Obviously I would be driving carefully with him in the car, as I do whenever I have a passenger in with me, I just don't fancy getting pulled and dragged over the coals for it.

I suppose it will be a case of suck it and see.

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
You may drive carefully, but you can't control other drivers who may collide with you...





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ollycutts1982

posted on 27/3/17 at 03:43 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
You may drive carefully, but you can't control other drivers who may collide with you...


Definitely agree there, that is what I would clarity on the matter really.

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SteveWallace

posted on 27/3/17 at 05:16 PM Reply With Quote
Sounds like its not the legality that you need clarity on but the safety.

Even if you drive very carefully and you have an incident through no fault of your own, you need to know that the harness will function correctly with the child seat. I'm not qualified to give advice, but maybe one of the harness manufacturers is, or maybe ROSPA (although they will probably just say don't do it)





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gremlin1234

posted on 27/3/17 at 06:56 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
The change in law was about boosters with backs, but was a law about selling them not using them. You can use a normal backless booster if you still have it, you just cant buy them anymore.
Min age to use a booster is based on weight IIRC.

[Edited on 27-3-17 by loggyboy]
backless boosters can still be sold, but the their use is restricted to bigger children. (but boosters you have already can still be used. though there are restrictions on very young kids.)
there are 2 special cases for front seats, firstly, they should be used in preference to rear seats without seat belts, and also the airbag restrictions.

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minibull

posted on 28/3/17 at 12:52 AM Reply With Quote
Not only must booster seat be used (depending on age/size of child),but it must be fitted correctly. As far as I'm aware no one makes a child safety seat suitable for a 4 point harness so impossible to fit the seat in the car legally and even more importantly safely. If you have retractable std type seat belts fitted to your kit then you would legally be able to fit and use child seat.For children over 125cm or weighing 22kg a backless booster seat can be used which may well be compatible with a harness but even then the law states must be fitted according to manufacturers instructions so if they don't mention use with harness then it would still be illegal.
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jeffw

posted on 28/3/17 at 05:41 AM Reply With Quote
The primary issue here is safety of a child and not the legalities. Unless the seat and harness is specifically designed/installed to work with the size of child then you are likely to be endangering the child. Any booster seat will not be retained correctly by a 4 point harness as they are not designed to work together and, as soon as it moves, the harness its self will not be tight enough to restrain the child during the impact.

Motorsport type 4 point (or 6 point) harnesses are designed to be used in a specific way, lapstraps need to come over the pelvis and the buckle needs to below the waist. Lapstraps need to be tight and then the shoulder straps can be fitted, shoulder straps mountings need to be inline with the top of the shoulders or slightly below. If shoulder strap mounts are above the shoulder (as is likely with a child) the harness will not function correctly as it will allow movement.

Worry more about the safety of the child and less about getting pulled over by the Police.






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David Jenkins

posted on 28/3/17 at 09:13 AM Reply With Quote
As I said above - the shoulder straps on a 4-point harness will not restrain the upper half of a child.





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40inches

posted on 28/3/17 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
A lap and diagonal would be far safer, easy to fit and could possibly be in tandem with the harness.
I swapped my harnesses for lap and diagonal,with the buckle inboard.
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swanny

posted on 28/3/17 at 11:04 AM Reply With Quote
can i ask why you swapped to those belts?

just curious, and wondered about doing similar for my kids

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David Jenkins

posted on 28/3/17 at 11:27 AM Reply With Quote
Just one caution - that belt arrangement probably wouldn't pass IVA as the upper fixing is too close to the centreline. If you look at an ordinary car, the upper point is high on the side pillar. In the picture above, the diagonal belt will be tight against the neck instead of across the collarbone. It's perfect for a 4-point harness, but not for a 3-point one.

The best place to put the upper fixing is on the upright of the roll bar, on the inside (assuming the roll bar is strong enough, obviously).





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40inches

posted on 28/3/17 at 11:39 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swanny
can i ask why you swapped to those belts?

just curious, and wondered about doing similar for my kids


Getting in and out of the car was a pain, having to readjust the belts every time, not happy that pulling tight the chest straps lifted the waist straps over my stomach. Getting a passenger fastened in Getting settled in the seat, then realizing I hadn't closed the garage door/ left my helmet on the boot lid/left the car keys in the garage/ even gloves on the scuttle top means unfastening the harness, popping down to the shops not worth the hassle.
I use the kit a lot more with the lap and diagonal (2000 miles in 3 months ) I still have the harness eyes in place for trackdays.
Some Caterham owners have both fitted, Caterham fit L&D belts to most of their models as standard, or did?

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