carl M
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 posted on 10/7/17 at 07:50 AM |
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Tuning Timing
So I've finally got my 2.0l Zetec running on GXSR Tb's and MS 3, happy days.
Using Tunerstudio and Megalog I've pretty much got the VE table right, just now working on Acceleration Enrichment.
For safety I've put in "standard" Zetec spark table with 4 Deg taken out. Now it's driving nicely is there any way to
accurately tune the timing without going to a rolling road (or blowing my Engine up.....)
Any ideas or tips welcome.
Thanks
Carl
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snapper
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 01:07 PM |
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The only thing you can do is to advance ignition timing until it detonates the pull out a degree or 2, this won't tell you what the power loss
or gain is just where it wil pink.
Megajolt log can log acceleration speeds of the engine and set shows up as a wild number, not sure if MS can log the same.
When we were mapping a Super Rod on a rolling road it was a case of the minimum spark advance to make best power not the maximum.
Again not the same as a spark map as it used a dizzy but the precise max advance was over 10 degrees lower than the engine had been set at and a
degree either way past this lost big power.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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SPYDER
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 02:34 PM |
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Hi Carl. I've been through similar shenaningans fitting GSXR ITB's to my 3SGE engined car.
Are you using speed density, AlphaN or ITB mode? I can recommend the latter, despite the amount of faff that it might entail.
I had the AE pretty much sorted apart from an annoying slight hesitation on low throttle pickup. Setting a very low threshold resulted in some
unwanted AE events, despite there being very little noise on the TPS trace.
So I gave Enhanced AE a try, initially using the default curves. It was awful. Over-compensating all over the place. I reduced the default ATW curve
by half then road tested to get the final shape. It fine now. No hesitation at all. The normal AE kicks in for rapid throttle movements only.
The overcompensation was probably a consequence of my injectors being in the head very close to the inlet valves. If you are using the GSXR injectors
then you could get better results on the default curves.
A quick google would suggest that the Zetec needs between 29 and 32 degrees advance when above 3K at WOT. ( Depending on who's talking) This
isn't too far removed from my 3SGE table. I used trial and error and a good ear for pinking as suggested by snapper. Cruise area will be up to
10 degrees higher. I'll post my table if you like. It has TPS for the load axis.
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SPYDER
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 02:39 PM |
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Just to add to the above, the 3SGE needs 34 degrees at the top. It was reduced to 32 during a quick RR session and showed no loss. Any lower was
detrimental. Like snapper said, minimum timing to get best torque, not maximum.
Bear in mind that altering your timing can change the AFR and your VE table might need tweaking.
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carl M
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 04:25 PM |
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Thanks for the advice, I'm using speed density at the moment, and am pretty happy with the VE table.
I spent a little time today trying AE MapDot and to be honest got a little lost, I think i went to wrong way and was putting too much fuel in and the
car started to stumble then pick up (resulting in learner style kangaroo's........  )
I'll check the datalogs again tonight and re-try.
A the moment I've only got 26 Deg at WOT for safety. I'll inch up by a Deg per run and see if it makes a noticeable difference. I guess I
could compare the datalog times from say 3k - 7k rpm in 3rd gear to give me an idea if the timing is improving power.
[Edited on 10/7/17 by carl M]
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SPYDER
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 07:04 PM |
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Hi Carl. You can log RpmDot directly to show the rate at which your revs are rising. Assuming that you have the TPS sensor that came with the throttle
bodies then use it to trigger AE.
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carl M
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| posted on 10/7/17 at 08:10 PM |
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Good to know, thanks. I have the TPS sensor on the throttle bodies and it seems to have a good signal (very little noise)
I'll have another play over the next few days.
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Jenko
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| posted on 12/7/17 at 09:58 AM |
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Reality is, you will never get the car absolute optimum tuning on the road....A rolling road will almost always find a bit more somewhere along the
rev range...but you can get pretty close.
I did this a few years back then NMS challenged me to say they could get it better...Myself an Tror at NMS wrote an article for westfield world on the
whole experience....it was a really good experiment, and showed that you could do a fair job of logging and mapping on the road, but ultimately the
rollers won. :-)
I have the article somewhere if want to pm your email.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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carl M
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| posted on 12/7/17 at 11:34 AM |
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To be honest I'm only doing it as I like tinkering, maybe in the future I'll also to to a RR to get it optimized.
I'm interested in the article so will send a pm
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Jenko
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| posted on 12/7/17 at 11:50 AM |
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Article sent - :-)
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 12/7/17 at 04:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
Reality is, you will never get the car absolute optimum tuning on the road....A rolling road will almost always find a bit more somewhere along the
rev range...but you can get pretty close.
I did this a few years back then NMS challenged me to say they could get it better...Myself an Tror at NMS wrote an article for westfield world on the
whole experience....it was a really good experiment, and showed that you could do a fair job of logging and mapping on the road, but ultimately the
rollers won. :-)
I have the article somewhere if want to pm your email.
I´m interested if you don´t mind.
Email to follow by U2U.
Thanks in advance.
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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