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Author: Subject: Bike engine simplicity?
tompat3463

posted on 7/8/17 at 05:30 PM Reply With Quote
Bike engine simplicity?

Hi. It's been an age since I last posted here and just as long since I owned a kit car so,

I'm thinking of buying another kit car. Haven't decided if I'm going to buy a kit or just buy a CEC and put a bike engine in it.

My question is.

How simple are hayabusa engines to install ? And which year hayabusa is best ?
I presume earlier models were carb and later models are FI. I've worked with carb blade engines and carb R1 engines but never an injected engine. How much more complicated are they and do you need any more 'specialist' tools to work with them ?

I haven't decided yet which engine I'm going for but high on my list of options is to buy a complete hayabusa, strip the engine and sell the rest of the parts to recoup some money.
If that's what I go for then my plan was to start stripping the bike and checking it still runs. If I find a part prevents it from running then obv I need to keep that part. Is this realistic or is there a better method or a definitive list of parts I need off the bike.

Any help is appreciated. Cheers Alan

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daniel mason

posted on 7/8/17 at 06:16 PM Reply With Quote
I'd be looking at a 5vy Yamaha motor personally.
The busa is a good motor and many will run without a dry sump,but I wouldn't run without one. Seen so many go pop with oil surge issues in competition use.
That makes things far more costly initially but cheaper than replacing a motor.
The r1 can run with a simple baffle plate and make similar power,more revs but less grunt.

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Nathsx

posted on 7/8/17 at 07:24 PM Reply With Quote
How does the CBR1000 compare to the R1 ?
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daniel mason

posted on 7/8/17 at 07:39 PM Reply With Quote
Modern 09 onwards are probably the best motor available.but they are very expensive!
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hkp57

posted on 8/8/17 at 01:48 AM Reply With Quote
Alan
But to answer your second point, No its not a straight forward swap in the sense you essentially throw everything away in the drive train from the diff forward. Depending on your intended use you will likely need to change the diff also to a 3.38 best suited to the R1 or Blade engines. Busa or ZZR1400 better with a 3.14

You will also be left with holes in the body when you change the exhaust etc, all can be done with time and effort.

Is there a reason you wouldn't buy a car already fitted with a bike engine? Get something already proven then add your own twist to it.

No they do not need anything in the way of special tools, I run a standard 2003 Gen1 Busa on a standard ECU all the way to a standard Busa fuel pump in the fuel tank, no issues.

Modifications done for reliability only

Dry Sump
Electric water pump
Uprated clutch springs
Starter motor Billet housing and clutch (Saves damage to crank case and starter motor if you have a spin)

[Edited on 8/8/17 by hkp57]





Fleet
SKC Raptor R - Hayabusa
Toyota C-HR Hybrid Limited Edition
Honda VFR1200 CrossTourer
DCT
Marlin Roadster 1800
Mercedes Vito 116 Sport

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reb

posted on 8/8/17 at 07:41 AM Reply With Quote
Just look for a Seven which already has a bike engined installed.

I am currently converting from cec to bec and it is way more work and way more costly than I anticipated.

Dont use the hayabusa engine as you will need an expensive dry sump system (~2.5k).

Most other 1000cc engines will run just fine with a billet sump.

A 3.14 final drive will also limit the top speed by gearing of a hayabusa engine with 13" rims due to its "low" redline of 10.900rpm (power drops off after 10.500).

1000cc engines dont have that problem due to the extra rpm (~13.500) which allow for a higher gearing.

So a 3.14 (sierra) or 3.23 (freelander) final drive might be ideal, but those are rare and expensive.

Be aware that you will also need a reverse mechanism.

No one seems to be happy with reverse boxes and fitting an electric reverse might be a pain due to space restrictions (depending on your chassis).

A proper starter with a reduction gear (WOSP) with a matching sprocket isn't exactly cheap.

You will also need a special resilient tube propshaft which needs to be custom made.

Dont forget that a special exhaust manifold has to be custom made, which is pricey too.

Some SC59 CBR1000RR engines have problems with their crankshaft (08, 09, 10), so if you want a CBR1000RR engine I would get a >'11 one.

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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 8/8/17 at 11:45 AM Reply With Quote
Alan,

Any Hayabusa is good, all are injection. Early 'Gen1' engines (to 2007) have simple electrics, 2007 onwards are a little more complex. Gen1 have 4 injectors, Gen2 have 8, little is transferable up top between them. The engines are 'large', large being a relative term... compared to a car engine boat anchor. On the road, fine, on a track you need a dry sump, on a track with slicks you need a lot of expensive bits (clutch basket... etc., etc.). Not an engine to consider on a limited budget, unless you factor in the grief.

A Yamaha 5VY sounds incredible, believe me, it really is a glorious thing. Buy a good one, fit a baffle plate and enjoy. If Carlsberg were to build kit car/race engines... total simplicity. Wiring is really simple. It's the only engine that I have never managed to destroy, and believe me, I do try.

Some folks love things made by Honda, with good reason, reliable, powerful. I'm a motorcyclist however. I have no experience of the engines in race/kit cars, except that I compete against them. They are good, annoyingly so.

My favourite are the smaller Hayabusa, the GSXR1000. Again, you really need a dry sump (West Performance) on a track, or on slicks. They also tend to perforate the crankcase if they're in a mind to, without warning. Go for a pre 2008 engine, the oiling is questionable on the later engines. Early units have torque, later ones less torque and more top end. All are good.

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