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Author: Subject: 'Deleting' the mechanical water pump
BigMac

posted on 2/10/17 at 08:54 PM Reply With Quote
'Deleting' the mechanical water pump

Evening all

Having read Andy B's really interesting articles of how they modify the CBR1000RR units to go into a car, I've decided to undertake a little winter project and see if I can replicate some of that on my ZX10R powered Westfield.

One of things that I'm planning is an upgrade of the cooling system- swap out the standard polo rad for a Coolex 55mm alloy one, try and ditch some of the silicone hoses to remove potential failure points, but also look at replacing the mechanical pump with a Davies Craig EWP 80 electric pump. I read in Andy's article that they effectively 'delete' the mechanical pump and modify the thermostat. The latter I'm fine with, but I'm not sure how to bypass the water pump on a ZX10R.

The impeller in the pump is driven by a shaft that locates itself onto the oil pump gear shaft (manual extract below), so impeller speed is determined by engine speed. If I leave it in place, the speed of the impeller will create back pressure between the water pump inlet and the outlet of the electric pump- which I'm guessing isn't good for the life of the pump, plus it restricts the flow rate.

ZX10R water pump
ZX10R water pump


From what I can see, there aren't any kits available that delete the mechanical pump; so my thought was I have two options:

1) Remove the impeller from the pump completely and find some way of sealing the housing where it used to come out the back of the pump (e.g. JB weld);
2) Cut the notched part of the impeller shaft off- leaving the impeller in place, but removing it's drive

I'm thinking (1) is the best for flow rates and minimising any back pressure, whereas (2) is the simple fix that means no having to re-seal anything, but the impeller being in place does possibly add a small amount of back pressure.

Any thoughts or experiences from all you people 'in the know' would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Ben.

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BigMac

posted on 2/10/17 at 09:20 PM Reply With Quote
Ok... Brain fart moment. Since I won't be running the original oil cooler either, I could just connect the outlet of the EWP directly to the water inlet on the block, and just bypass the pump completely... DOH!
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goaty

posted on 3/10/17 at 08:42 AM Reply With Quote
I have similar plans for my gsxr over the winter.
Got the ewp80 sitting waiting.
I plan to remove my pump completely and make some sort of plug where the drive comes out.
Not sure how yet but that's my plan.

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BigMac

posted on 3/10/17 at 07:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by goaty
I have similar plans for my gsxr over the winter.
Got the ewp80 sitting waiting.
I plan to remove my pump completely and make some sort of plug where the drive comes out.
Not sure how yet but that's my plan.


Oh I hadn't thought of that- so you're effectively going to remove the entire pump and go without, provided you can blank the hole into the block?

Water pump wise, are you hardwiring it into the ignition, or are you using one of their controllers?

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goaty

posted on 4/10/17 at 05:09 AM Reply With Quote
Yes that's my plan.
Completely remove it all together.

I bought the pump with one of there digital controls.
Demon tweaks had a sale on them

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Andy B

posted on 4/10/17 at 07:43 AM Reply With Quote
Hi Guys
you definitely want to delete the entire pump if you are not going to pass water through it as it will run very hot if left in place. It will also free up bhp so its worth doing. We havent done a blank kit for the zx10r but if someone wanted us to produce one we would just need to measure an engine up.
Do not use the ewp controller as they pull massive amps and we have had these lead to misfires as the battery gets pulled down. We just accept a slightly longer warm up time
Oil cooling take off on the 10 is not as easy as some due to the weird 3 bolt set up - I would look at billet sandwich plate between filter and seat
hope that helps
Andy

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goaty

posted on 4/10/17 at 07:00 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks Andy, handy to know about the controller.

Dont suppose you make a blank for the gsxr engine either?

Cheers

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JimSpencer

posted on 4/10/17 at 09:14 PM Reply With Quote
Hi

I've done this to a ZX10R, running the Davies Craig pump too.

What I did is cut up the old pump body, so all you have left is the round piece that goes into the hole in the crankcase, plus retained a couple of the mounting lugs so you can bolt it on.

Remove the impeller shaft totally and the body then has a tube through it - this you could simply blank off with a nut and bolt (Bolt on the inside and cross pinned..)
Or
Make use of it by using it as an oil return from the crankcase breather, this I did by running the crankcase breather to a Oil Separator off a Renault 5 GT turbo - then taking the output of that to the tube on the old water pump body, then the other output to the catch tank.

Drastically reduced the oil that ends up in the catch tank..




On another matter though - have any of you found that some ZX10's breath really heavy from that breather?
And any ideas to reduce it in the first place??

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BigMac

posted on 4/10/17 at 09:36 PM Reply With Quote
Thanks for chipping in Andy- it's always great to get advice from the BEC oracle himself!

So I noticed on your website that you sell the EWP80, I take it that's the pump you use/recommend for this kind of install? Albeit without the controller and just wired directly to the ignition switch?

With regard to making a blank for the water pump, if you have the means to make such a thing, I know I'd buy one!

On the oil cooler front, I'd come to the conclusion that a take off between the seat and the filter was probably the way to go- I'm just pricing everything up now. Similar to the water pump blank, do you think a blank could be made to remove the OEM cooler, even if we still have to use a sandwich plate for the air/oil cooler?

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BigMac

posted on 4/10/17 at 09:42 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JimSpencer
Hi

I've done this to a ZX10R, running the Davies Craig pump too.

What I did is cut up the old pump body, so all you have left is the round piece that goes into the hole in the crankcase, plus retained a couple of the mounting lugs so you can bolt it on.

Remove the impeller shaft totally and the body then has a tube through it - this you could simply blank off with a nut and bolt (Bolt on the inside and cross pinned..)
Or
Make use of it by using it as an oil return from the crankcase breather, this I did by running the crankcase breather to a Oil Separator off a Renault 5 GT turbo - then taking the output of that to the tube on the old water pump body, then the other output to the catch tank.

Drastically reduced the oil that ends up in the catch tank..




On another matter though - have any of you found that some ZX10's breath really heavy from that breather?
And any ideas to reduce it in the first place??


Thanks for that Jim, so remove the front of the housing so you effectively end up with a bowl shaped part, then block off where the impeller shaft would have gone, either by way of nut/bolt, or running a line into it, to return oil from the breather?

I can't say I've noticed much in the way of residue/output from the breather (I presume you mean the one on the top of the block) on mine? At the moment it just runs a filter and it's still relatively clean...

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JimSpencer

posted on 5/10/17 at 09:18 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BigMac

Thanks for that Jim, so remove the front of the housing so you effectively end up with a bowl shaped part, then block off where the impeller shaft would have gone, either by way of nut/bolt, or running a line into it, to return oil from the breather?

I can't say I've noticed much in the way of residue/output from the breather (I presume you mean the one on the top of the block) on mine? At the moment it just runs a filter and it's still relatively clean...



Hi,
Yes remove the front of the housing and then I cut away a fair chunk of the back of it too - so just left with the bowl and a couple of the mounting lugs - and also Yes re blocking up the impeller shaft tube, or using it to return oil emitted from the breather, via a separator, back into the sump where you want it.

I suspect some ZX10's breathe heavier than others - mine was throwing out a bit, though to be fair we've been running them a bit overfull

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andyfiggy2002

posted on 7/10/17 at 02:49 AM Reply With Quote
Can you show link to andys article on modifying cbr1000rr to go in car & can this mod be done on the cbr900rr?
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BigMac

posted on 7/10/17 at 10:42 AM Reply With Quote
Hey Andy. He's been doing articles over late August/September over the AB Performance Facebook pages, here's the specific one around cooling, but he's done some great, really informative posts. If you're not already following the Facebook page, I'd recommend it, it's full of good advice and welding porn...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1593912567338158&id=208902169172545

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