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Author: Subject: Engine struggled to start third time round.
bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 04:07 PM Reply With Quote
Engine struggled to start third time round.

After rebuild, with news cams, pistons, rings etc engine ran for ten minutes then there was a oil leak.

two weeks later oil leak sorted, started engine and ran at 2000rpm for another ten minutes

stopped engine but this time around tried to turn it over straight away and the battery could not turn the engine over. felt like a dead battery.

the mechanic said because the engine is now hot the compression will be higher and the battery is struggling. stopped the engine as while the radiator fan kicked in.


i have converted the engine from 1.4 to a 1.6 afh conversion. Does this mean I now need a stronger battery?
The battery for the 1.4 should be 440ca, 50ah.
The battery for the 1.6 should be 550ca, 60ah. but ive seen people using a 45ah in thier 1.6's infact some websites sell 40ah for the 1.6

i measured the battery with a multimeter and it read 12.2V.

p.s New battery and new alternator

[Edited on 16/2/19 by bikecarbfred]

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daviep

posted on 16/2/19 at 07:08 PM Reply With Quote
12.2v is a flat battery I would guess your alternator is not charging.

Charge battery on bench and get engine started so you can check charging.

Do you have a charge warning light? and is it a proper bulb as an Led will not start the alternator charging.





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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 07:30 PM Reply With Quote
its a vw.
the mechanic said alternator seems to be working because when you turn ignition on the battery symbol appears on the dash and then goes off after 2-3 seconds.


btw i took plugs out and starter was able to turn it over so the 12.2 was enough to turn it without plugs.

paid quite abit of the alternator - was refurbed bosch.

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gremlin1234

posted on 16/2/19 at 07:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
its a vw.
the mechanic said alternator seems to be working because when you turn ignition on the battery symbol appears on the dash and then goes off after 2-3 seconds.
that just sounds like the bulb test, so still could be alternator, battery, starter or wiring.
what car is it?
ps, as always with these things: charge the battery, and check the earthleads

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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 09:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
its a vw.
the mechanic said alternator seems to be working because when you turn ignition on the battery symbol appears on the dash and then goes off after 2-3 seconds.
that just sounds like the bulb test, so still could be alternator, battery, starter or wiring.
what car is it?
ps, as always with these things: charge the battery, and check the earthleads


vw polo 1998 1.6 16V AFH

only two earths, one from battery negative to gearbox
and one earth strap from engine cover to engine bay wall

one cable goes from battery positive to starter to power it.

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daviep

posted on 16/2/19 at 09:16 PM Reply With Quote
12.2v is a flat battery, charged battery should be above 12.6v

Charge the battery, check the battery voltage, start the engine and check the battery voltage, should be between 14.2V and 14.7V with the engine running. Turn on lights etc to provide a bot of electrical load and check battery voltage again, should stay between 14.2 and 14.7. If the battery voltage with the engine running is the same or less than when you checked it before starting then you are not charging.

Check battery voltage while trying to crank engine, should stay above 9.5volts after cranking for 30secs.

Have a feel for hot cables / joints - it is possible that you have a dirty connection.

These are very basic diagnostic checks not proper tests of the battery / alternator.





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gremlin1234

posted on 16/2/19 at 09:19 PM Reply With Quote
I had one of them, and for years the starter would 'sneeze' as it overran after the car started,
I shall try to dredge my memories as to oddities of polo 6n...
but certainly 12.2V is low

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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 09:27 PM Reply With Quote
i know it's low. it's usually 13.7V

Somethings not right. I bought this battery a few months ago from halfords and when I first charged it using a trickle charger it charged up to 13.7

Now when I use the trickle charger , think it only goes to 13.1V max.

i noticed on the gauge in the car it was showing 12V while engine was running. on my old setup it always showed around 13.7 to 14V

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gremlin1234

posted on 16/2/19 at 09:33 PM Reply With Quote
after a quick memory check:
polo starters can be considered a little weak,
but I think its more likely to be the battery,
as said 12.2V is low for a car like that, but many 'modern' cars do run that as a normal voltage, but use a different battery chemistry and charging regime

edit: what is the battery?

[Edited on 16/2/19 by gremlin1234]

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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 10:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
after a quick memory check:
polo starters can be considered a little weak,
but I think its more likely to be the battery,
as said 12.2V is low for a car like that, but many 'modern' cars do run that as a normal voltage, but use a different battery chemistry and charging regime

edit: what is the battery?

[Edited on 16/2/19 by gremlin1234]


440amps, 50ah

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britishtrident

posted on 16/2/19 at 11:24 PM Reply With Quote
(1) A fully charged 12v conventional lead acid battery should show between 12.5 and 12.7 volts after resting with no electrical load. The exact voltage varies with temperature and if the battery has calcium doped chemistry. AGM batteries ideally need 14.8v from the alternator.

(2) Alternators charge at between 13.4v and 14.9v typically about 14.4v depending on load alternator size RPM and battery state of charge.

(3) The battery light on the dash merely shows the alternator is matching the battery voltage.

(4) If the alternator is not making at least 13.1 v the battery is discharging.

(5) Every time a battery is deeply discharged it is damaged, calcium batteries if deeply discharge are damaged often to the point they won't accept a recharge even with a specialist pulse charger.

(6) Freshly off charge a battery should read about 13.1v on a healthy battery it will rapidly drop over a few minutes to a couple of hours to the 12.5 to 12.7 range.

(87) To test a battery requires either an old style high current voltage drop tester that loads a battery to a huge 1/3 o 1/2 of the CCA rating or 3 times the AH rating of the battery or an modern AC impedance tester. AC impedance testers are fairly cheap from Amazon or eBay and provide a good estimate of the condition and life left in the battery

[Edited on 16/2/19 by britishtrident]





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bikecarbfred

posted on 16/2/19 at 11:51 PM Reply With Quote
how to check alternator?


might take battery back to halfords . the trickle charger can't charge it past 13.1V. theres a problem with it.
it should be over 14V.

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bikecarbfred

posted on 17/2/19 at 08:46 AM Reply With Quote
right so im going to trickle charge the battery to 13.1V

I am then going to check voltage on the battery when I start the car and get it right up to 2k rpm.

Instantly I should see 14.1-14.7V across the battery?

This means regulator on alternator has kicked in instantly.

If voltage remains 13.1V then i have a problem?

I got this from wikiHOW

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daviep

posted on 17/2/19 at 05:47 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
right so im going to trickle charge the battery to 13.1V

I am then going to check voltage on the battery when I start the car and get it right up to 2k rpm.

Instantly I should see 14.1-14.7V across the battery?

This means regulator on alternator has kicked in instantly.

If voltage remains 13.1V then i have a problem?

I got this from wikiHOW


Pretty much exactly what I said in my 2nd post?





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bikecarbfred

posted on 17/2/19 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
okay got it. cheers
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bikecarbfred

posted on 19/2/19 at 06:49 PM Reply With Quote
as soon as i switched engine on battery voltage shot up straight away up to 14.7v ish

so alternator is working?

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gremlin1234

posted on 19/2/19 at 09:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
as soon as i switched engine on battery voltage shot up straight away up to 14.7v ish

so alternator is working?
yep looks that way

when I asked what battery is it, I meant is is standard lead acid? or the more modern glass matt, cadmium or silver (I guess not lithium)

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bikecarbfred

posted on 19/2/19 at 09:49 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
Originally posted by bikecarbfred
as soon as i switched engine on battery voltage shot up straight away up to 14.7v ish

so alternator is working?
yep looks that way

when I asked what battery is it, I meant is is standard lead acid? or the more modern glass matt, cadmium or silver (I guess not lithium)


calcium

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