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Author: Subject: Jag V6 dyno results (at last)
40inches

posted on 27/2/19 at 02:57 PM Reply With Quote
Jag V6 dyno results (at last)

Well 2.5 years after finishing the AJ30 install I have got round to getting it on a rolling road.
Two things that amaze me are:
How good this engine is and how close VEAL got the tune.

A power pull before adjustment saw 239bhp tuned solely with VEAL, however there is no substitute
for a rolling road tune, because you can't hit all the cells, and the ignition timing is not touched.
Before tuning on the RR the car was very good, but after the RR season it is superb
The BHP and Torque traces where a bit wiggly, to say the least, after RR tuning a complete contrast.
The Torque came in around 190/195ftlb from around 1500rpm up to 4000rpm, then climbed up
to 215lbft at 5600rpm before decaying.
The power peak was around 242bhp, flat between 6000rpm and 7200rpm and was still going
It will pull away from standstill in 5th with 2 up
If you are building an AJ30 install, you will not be disappointed, it was well worth the effort

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flak monkey

posted on 27/2/19 at 03:42 PM Reply With Quote
Nice result





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wylliezx9r

posted on 27/2/19 at 05:31 PM Reply With Quote
Nice. The car must go like stink. Do you know what the car weighs by any chance ?





I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
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Badger_McLetcher

posted on 27/2/19 at 05:51 PM Reply With Quote
Awesome! I can't wait to finish mine





If dysfunction is a function, then I must be some kind of genius.

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big_wasa

posted on 27/2/19 at 05:55 PM Reply With Quote
That must be a great sound track.

I sort of wish I had gone with it instead of the turbo Zetec, maybe next time. I still look at and think that’s a lot of engine for a Locost


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40inches

posted on 27/2/19 at 09:10 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wylliezx9r
Nice. The car must go like stink. Do you know what the car weighs by any chance ?


640kg without driver, but with 4 gallons of fuel. About 120kg up on the ZX9R

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40inches

posted on 27/2/19 at 09:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
That must be a great sound track.



I used Kits and Classics in Chesterfield for the Dyno session, Jools the owner said he preferred the soundtrack of the V6 to a V8
He is a TVR specialist, so I was pleased with that comment

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perksy

posted on 27/2/19 at 10:05 PM Reply With Quote
Thats a really good result

Peak Torque and BHP within 1500 rpm of each other, There ain't much wrong with that engine

Heard good things about Jools and his mapping

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CosKev3

posted on 28/2/19 at 09:08 AM Reply With Quote
Oh this is great to hear

Especially using the ST200 Inlet which looks more restrictive than the standard AJ30 one

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CosKev3

posted on 28/2/19 at 09:10 AM Reply With Quote
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]

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40inches

posted on 28/2/19 at 11:58 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?

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CosKev3

posted on 28/2/19 at 12:41 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?


Thats good to hear about the VVT

And yes please I would love a map that I know will allow me to fire up the engine thanks

Are you considering raising the rev limit as it's still pulling?

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40inches

posted on 28/2/19 at 04:31 PM Reply With Quote
Well after an afternoon on the RR, it's all good news.
By moving switching points up and down the rev range Jools managed to get a conservative increase of
around 20bhp all the way from 2000rpm to 6200rpm with around 10bhp at the rev limit
Unfortunately the whole map was weak, so it will have to go back on the rollers for a remap.
So the gains with a remap should exceed 20bhp. That will be done in a few weeks time
I woder what the safe rev limit is? It sounds mega at 7000rpm as it is

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CosKev3

posted on 28/2/19 at 05:30 PM Reply With Quote
Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?

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40inches

posted on 1/3/19 at 09:42 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?


The VVT was a bit of a head scratcher, and reverse intuative.
With no VVT the lower (2000rpm to 6000rpm) was the same, but the graph kept climbing up to the redline for
over 250bhp
With the VVT activated the lower showed a 10% (20-25)increase of torque and power but fell off at 6000rpm to 240bhp
but wouldn't idle
We figured out that the VVT was 2 stage and to combine the two graphs would need 2 programmable outputs from
the MS, and an extra relay i:e The VVT is off until 2000rpm, On until 6000rpm then back off!
So I am adding an extra relay to the VVT "control" box and then another full mapping season.
The injection is Semi sequential and ,surprisingly, Alpha N gave the best results..

[Edited on 1-3-19 by 40inches]

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r1_pete

posted on 1/3/19 at 03:43 PM Reply With Quote
Great result Dave, feels like a different car afterwards doesn’t it....
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40inches

posted on 1/3/19 at 04:43 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Great result Dave, feels like a different car afterwards doesn’t it....

Yea! From good to great

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Ugg10

posted on 1/3/19 at 05:41 PM Reply With Quote
The vct sound like it is similar to the Puma 1.7. Have search for Jenko on here. He found that it was best off up to about 2k then on until 6k and then off again above that. Without turning it off again he was loosing top end power. He also turn his off below about 30% load iirc. He used an onex600 ecu. The latest emerald k6 and me221 can do a fully mapped vct I think.

[Edited on 1/3/19 by Ugg10]

[Edited on 1/3/19 by Ugg10]





---------------------------------------------------------------
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Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com

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CosKev3

posted on 2/3/19 at 09:31 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?


The VVT was a bit of a head scratcher, and reverse intuative.
With no VVT the lower (2000rpm to 6000rpm) was the same, but the graph kept climbing up to the redline for
over 250bhp
With the VVT activated the lower showed a 10% (20-25)increase of torque and power but fell off at 6000rpm to 240bhp
but wouldn't idle
We figured out that the VVT was 2 stage and to combine the two graphs would need 2 programmable outputs from
the MS, and an extra relay i:e The VVT is off until 2000rpm, On until 6000rpm then back off!
So I am adding an extra relay to the VVT "control" box and then another full mapping season.
The injection is Semi sequential and ,surprisingly, Alpha N gave the best results..

[Edited on 1-3-19 by 40inches]


Ah right thanks

I've been recommended to wire the VVT solenoids in like injectors,so ignition live,then use a output channel on the MS to switch the earth to it?

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40inches

posted on 2/3/19 at 10:39 AM Reply With Quote
That's right, I used the Fidle output, and now another spare output for the extra switch over.
Without activating the VVT the engine will still put out a lot of power low down, and will probably have an extra 15-20bhp
above 6000rpm (255-260) but, by activating it at 2000rpm and deactivating at 6000rpm that 15-20 bhp/torque will be
all the way from 2000rpm up to 7200rpm It's a no brainer.
We saw 254bhp, but with a weak mixture Once it's remapped?????????
I'll see if I can put up the initial graph.

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40inches

posted on 2/3/19 at 02:48 PM Reply With Quote
This is the initial graph, you can see the bumps in the graphs when the VVT switches.
This is a very Torquey motor.

This is the graph with the power trace manually overlaid with 'OFF' VVT ,Red trace and
'ON' VVT Green trace. Just have to combine the two.

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CosKev3

posted on 2/3/19 at 03:56 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
That's right, I used the Fidle output, and now another spare output for the extra switch over.
Without activating the VVT the engine will still put out a lot of power low down, and will probably have an extra 15-20bhp
above 6000rpm (255-260) but, by activating it at 2000rpm and deactivating at 6000rpm that 15-20 bhp/torque will be
all the way from 2000rpm up to 7200rpm It's a no brainer.
We saw 254bhp, but with a weak mixture Once it's remapped?????????
I'll see if I can put up the initial graph.


Ah right cheers

I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?

Graph looks great

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40inches

posted on 3/3/19 at 05:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?
Graph looks great


The programmable outputs on Megasquirt are only single action, If it is programmed to switch on, at say 6000rpm, that's it, until the revs drop bellow 6000rpm again. It isn't a deal breaker, I always use relays for the programmable outputs anyway, so it
is a simple job to put another relay alongside the original and cut into the VVT feed wire with the other relay.
I did that this afternoon
If you have yet to order your MS, get Phil to activate all the outputs ( costs £5 each) you can have dual maps for a fiver also

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CosKev3

posted on 3/3/19 at 07:07 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?
Graph looks great


The programmable outputs on Megasquirt are only single action, If it is programmed to switch on, at say 6000rpm, that's it, until the revs drop bellow 6000rpm again. It isn't a deal breaker, I always use relays for the programmable outputs anyway, so it
is a simple job to put another relay alongside the original and cut into the VVT feed wire with the other relay.
I did that this afternoon
If you have yet to order your MS, get Phil to activate all the outputs ( costs £5 each) you can have dual maps for a fiver also


Mmm I'll have to ask Dale,as the output he suggested using was the one that controlled the boost solenoid when I had the turbo on the R1.
Pretty sure he said he could activate/deactivate that as he needed to to control the boost.

I've been running my MS since I charged the R1,just need to get Dale to add another driver for the extra two cylinders to run the AJ30.
He's recommended staying with batch fire injection too

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theduck

posted on 3/3/19 at 09:12 PM Reply With Quote
Boost control is a pwm output and different to the “programmable” outputs.
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