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Author: Subject: wiring soldering help.
AlexXtreme

posted on 27/2/19 at 07:10 PM Reply With Quote
wiring soldering help.

I mentioned this in other threads, my coil pack is located under the dash and I have decided to relocate it using a bracket below the carbs. To do this I have to cut off the coil pack plug and then I would like to solder on extension wires to more it to the new location - or a similar joining method that will be reliable.

I have a reasonable soldering iron but I am a real beginner and have only soldered where access is easy and this is definitely not!

Any suggestion on how I approach? I have seen some "helping hand" devices that would be useful but many I could do with something like this that is small with a magnetic base as there is not much room under the dash and I will be doing this lying on my back above the pedals (the dash will not come out enough to give me access without alot of grief). Also the clips would act as heat sinks to help avoid any heat damage when re-soldering on the plug on the extension wires.

Also what dia wires should i buy?
Thanks

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rusty nuts

posted on 27/2/19 at 07:32 PM Reply With Quote
Have a look at the crimp type connectors with heat shrink , probably easier and more reliable. I would suggest practicing soldering on a bench before hanging upside down behind a dash , been there , got the scars!
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02GF74

posted on 27/2/19 at 08:23 PM Reply With Quote
I must be missing something as I don't see why you need to be in the car contorted to do the soldering.

You say you are moving the coil pack in order to extend the lead, why can't this be done on a bench?.

To extend the lead, cut the individual wires but stagger the cut, this prevents the joining lumps being in the same place, useful if feeding the lead through a hole.


Take the extension wire and strip it back about 15 mm, push the tiny copper wires into the other wire on the lead that has also been stripped to 15nm and twist together. Apply flux, not necessary but it helps, dab some solder onto the tip, place against the join to heat it up and feed in the solder. Of course you will have remembered to put a short section of heatshrink tube first.

I am certain there will be YouTube videos showing exactly this.

What people don't understand about electrical soldering is that a good mechanical joint is made first, the twisting of the wires in this case, the solder makes the electrical join.

Ok, I've not watched all of this but it looks to be exactly what I'm on about.

https://youtu.be/qxqZJH3SfN4

[Edited on 27/2/19 by 02GF74]





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gremlin1234

posted on 27/2/19 at 08:51 PM Reply With Quote
while I would probably use solder connections and heat-shrink, (but proper lead based 60/40 solder)
for you crimps will do the job very well.
for wire thickness, use at least as thick as the current wires. also try to keep the colour coding the same!

ps, get a decent crimp tool

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AlexXtreme

posted on 27/2/19 at 09:10 PM Reply With Quote
The original coil pack is located on the aft face of the engine bulkhead and there is only around 125mm length of tail I can get to from the coil plug.

I am moving the coil pack as I am sure the leads are getting damaged running through the engine bulkhead which is causing a misfire now and again (or I want to rule out this cause). I have to sent the lead so I can move it.

I have practiced soldering already and was planning to twist the wires before soldering as suggested but it would be great to hold them in the right place whilst I am doing the soldering. I will crimp if I have to but will need to buy a good crimping tool first!

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AlexXtreme

posted on 27/2/19 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
saw this on ebay.. seen others which are similar with clips. anyone used similar?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-iron-magnetic-aid-helping-hand-clamp-holder-solder/173277220552?hash=item2858208ec8:g:L~wAAOSwZtNa2GYK:rk:2:pf:1& amp;frcectupt=true

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gremlin1234

posted on 27/2/19 at 09:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AlexXtreme
I am moving the coil pack as I am sure the leads are getting damaged running through the engine bulkhead which is causing a misfire now and again (or I want to rule out this cause). I have to sent the lead so I can move it.

shorly if you are moving the coil pack from under the dash to the engine bay, you just cut them under the dash, and move them. then access to the wires will then be easy.

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AlexXtreme

posted on 27/2/19 at 10:16 PM Reply With Quote
I would but there is not enough wire under the dash to run them to the engine compt.. The original builder must have shortened the lead.
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owelly

posted on 28/2/19 at 02:31 AM Reply With Quote
I'm not a fan of twisting soldered joints, I'd tin both ends, then solder them together......not forgetting to apply the heat-shrink first!!





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02GF74

posted on 28/2/19 at 05:34 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I'm not a fan of twisting soldered joints, I'd tin both ends, then solder them together......not forgetting to apply the heat-shrink first!!


Just curious as to why? The solder is used to mechanically hold the wires together, which is not its purpose.


Re. The £ 9.99 hold g tool above, what's wrong with a couple of wooden clothes pegs attached to a block of wood.





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owelly

posted on 28/2/19 at 06:08 AM Reply With Quote
A good soldered joint won't fail. Twisting the wires together just makes for a clumsy joint and is unnecessary. I'll also add, using a small amount of solder and just enough heat stops the solder from wicking down the wire, which keeps the wire flexible, thus reducing the chances of fracturing.





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tegwin

posted on 28/2/19 at 07:30 AM Reply With Quote
If itís good enough for nasa then itís good enough for you!

Always have some kind of mechanical joint as well as solder!

https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/407%20Splices.html





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AlexXtreme

posted on 28/2/19 at 01:13 PM Reply With Quote
I am going to try the cloths pegs idea... I like Lo Cost!
After that I will go for one of these... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-PL55-Ratchet-Crimping-Tool/dp/B000LFTKNW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1551359326&sr=8-4&keywords=crimp%2Btoo l&th=1
Don't normally buy Silverline but this looks OK and I don't thing I will be using that much.. if I do I will get something decent :-)
Alex

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02GF74

posted on 28/2/19 at 06:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
If itís good enough for nasa then itís good enough for you!


Ah yes, I was wondering how long it will be before the nasa document props up.

I don't recall what method nasa propose but nasa have lost two shuttles where as I've lost none, I know which method I'll continue to use.





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MikeRJ

posted on 1/3/19 at 11:35 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
A good soldered joint won't fail.


A good soldered joint always starts with mechanical constraint of the parts, twisting wires together or wrapping them around a pin etc.

Any soldered joint on stranded wire will cause a stress point, you can't prevent the solder wicking to some extent. This is why mechanically supporting the joint with e.g. heatshrink is important top prevent any bending close to the joint.

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AlexXtreme

posted on 2/3/19 at 09:47 AM Reply With Quote
Mike, agreed!
The problem I have is keeping the wires still still enough (mainly due to the poor access) to get heat in to the wires without the soldering iron or the wires moving. Tried once and it took a too long get the solder to run in to the twisted wires.. by the time I did, I noticed that the heat had run up the the shrink wrap near with obvious results!
Going to try crimping now..

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rusty nuts

posted on 2/3/19 at 10:42 AM Reply With Quote
Have a look at heat shrink solder sleeves
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Paul_Arion

posted on 2/3/19 at 11:08 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Have a look at heat shrink solder sleeves


As above - nice and simple with the proper connectors and very reliable
Butt splice

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AlexXtreme

posted on 23/3/19 at 10:24 PM Reply With Quote
Stuck with soldering and it worked out fine even if access was not that good... There is quite some satisfaction from getting a good solder joint I have found :-). Also made custom spark plug leads for the new coil pack and everything worked much to my amazement!
I am a composite structural engineer and spend most of my time behind a computer...

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coyoteboy

posted on 25/3/19 at 10:36 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
If itís good enough for nasa then itís good enough for you!


Ah yes, I was wondering how long it will be before the nasa document props up.

I don't recall what method nasa propose but nasa have lost two shuttles where as I've lost none, I know which method I'll continue to use.


No losses to electrical connection failures though lol. What's your o-ring design and operating constraint policy though?





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