NS Dev
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 posted on 24/1/05 at 12:45 PM |
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Riveting ally side panels
Just looking for other people's takes on this one.
I have finally got to the stage of needing to do most of the panelling on my Stuart Taylor locost. I have a rivetted/bonded alloy floor, and now need
to rivet the side panels on.
I will just have to fold the bottom bend of the panel over the heads of the floor rivets and seal/rivet along, but this seems a bit of a bodge with
the outer panel over the heads of the floor rivets?
I guess I am going to answer myself now and say that I should drill out the floor rivets and rivet through both layers at once, except then I'll
have rivet stumps clattering about inside the chassis tube.
Any views on this one, how did you do it?
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locoboy
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 12:51 PM |
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I aint there yet but what i would like to do is only secure the floor with a bare minimum of rivets on the outer edges say 6 then drill them out, and
then as you say drill and rivet through both layers.
As for the stumps 'clattering; around i dont think you will hear them do you!?
ATB
Locoboy
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 01:33 PM |
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You'll never hear them, but if you are the sort of person who will have it on his mind all the time.... if you waxoyl the chassis member in
question (through one of your freshly removed rivet holes) then the stray bits will stick in the waxoyl inside and will not budge.
personally i have put in every other rivet on the outer edge of my floor and have used countersunk rivets so i don't need to worry about
removing them. I do have a 2.6mm thick ally floor though and a rivet spacing of 25mm in 2 staggered rows (4.8mm structural rivets).
[Edited on 24/1/05 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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philgregson
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 02:50 PM |
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If you are going to use a thick ally floor then a steel floor of 18 guage or 16 guage will be lighter. If carefully welded to avoid distortion it i
imagine it will also be stiffer as well as the chassis flex will eventually loosen ally rivets to some degree.
As a steel floor is welded the rivet problem will then not arise!
Phil
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flak monkey
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 03:04 PM |
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Sorry to be an arse and disagree but...
An ali floor wont be heavier unless you make it more than 3 times thicker than a steel floor...and i doubt anyone is using 5mm ali for their
flooring.
Average AFAIK is about 2-2.5mm. A standard 1.2 mm steel floor weighs 12kg. A 2.5 mm ali floor weighs 8kg. A 2mm one weighs 7kg. (I talking full floors
with the bottom of the trans tunnel covered)
Cheers,
David
[Edited on 24/1/05 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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tri
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 04:02 PM |
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the aly floors are that heavy :O they seamed lighter to me o well sorry can't help with the side paanel prob i still to reach there
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 05:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Sorry to be an arse and disagree but...
An ali floor wont be heavier unless you make it more than 3 times thicker than a steel floor...and i doubt anyone is using 5mm ali for their
flooring.
Average AFAIK is about 2-2.5mm. A standard 1.2 mm steel floor weighs 12kg. A 2.5 mm ali floor weighs 8kg. A 2mm one weighs 7kg. (I talking full floors
with the bottom of the trans tunnel covered)
Cheers,
David
[Edited on 24/1/05 by flak monkey]
Have to agree with flak monkey, I have used 2.64mm Duralumin sheet (don't ask where i got it from!) and it is significantly lighter than and
equvalent strength steel floor, as for rivets loosening, well it just depends on how well you do the job and whether you use decent structural rivets!
(BTW my floor is also bonded with PU adhesive)
[Edited on 24/1/05 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 09:58 PM |
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My floor is riveted with 5mm structural rivets, and bonded with PU adhesive. Unfortunately this is done now, and I now have to fit the sidepanels!
DOH! I don't really want to drill out what will be a hell of a lot of rivets, and was thinking of just riveting the side panel with rivets in
between the floor rivets and beating it over them as neatly as poss..............or does this sound like too much of a bodge.
PS my ally floor is approx 1.6mm, so a lot lighter, if slightly flexible, but then that's what westfield use!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 11:20 PM |
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I think when i build mine (sometime) by the look of this post the solution would be to bond the side panel edges of the floor to the chassis with
sikaflex and clamp it and then rivet through everything when putting on the side panels.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 11:24 PM |
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I think you're right, but I'm a bit late for that now!!!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 24/1/05 at 11:39 PM |
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What do you mean by structural rivets
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 09:13 AM |
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there are many types of structural rivet available.
When the rivet is worked the mandrel pulls inside the casing and fills it, when the mandrel snaps off the rivet is effectively solid. with a pop
rivet you have a thin ally shell with a small 'ball' loose inside so the only strength is the thickness of the ally shell.
see Here
I have actually used a combination of a type of monbolt rivet which is used in the aircraft industry (3.2mm MBC's) and 4.8mm Huck
magnalok's in both dome and countersunk.
Here
[Edited on 25/1/05 by DaveFJ]
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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philgregson
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 10:09 AM |
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Oops - Miscalculation on the floor weight - I still think a steel floor is a better bit though.
I seem to remember many many moons ago asking this myself and the answer given at that time was that a steel floor was stiffer than even an ali floor
with extra bracing to compensate (which would definately make it heavier). If i recall I think it was Cymtriks who came up with the info following
FEA.
I might of course have remembered this completely wrong!
Phil
[Edited on 25/1/05 by philgregson]
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Peteff
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 10:24 AM |
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Steel's easier and cheaper but thicker aluminium won't flex. It's down to personal taste again. Has your computer got a stutter
Dave.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 10:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Has your computer got a stutter Dave.
???? Que ????
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Peteff
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 11:03 AM |
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Por favor..
Must be mine, I was reading all your posts twice .
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 12:36 PM |
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Has any one thought of drilling the steel floor say 10mm dia and then puddle welding to the chassis ive thought i might do my one this way if i go
down the steel floor road. It's prob been discussed here before but i just wondered if it might help against distortion ?
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smart51
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 03:05 PM |
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drill your side panel so that the floor's rivet heads sit in the holes. this will make the side panel sit flush with the floor. then rivet
through both panels to hold on the sides.
A friend of mine had a metro as his first car. It had an M10 nut loose in one of the sills. It must have been there when it was built. the dealer
drilled into the sill and looked into it with an endoscope. the nut could not be removed without making a large hole so the whole sill was filled
with waxoil to stop the rattling.
[Edited on 25/1/05 by smart51]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 25/1/05 at 04:58 PM |
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now why didn't I think of that!!
Cheers, brilliant idea........problem solved!!
Thanks!!
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ned
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 09:08 AM |
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a bit late i know, but as i've just done mine, I thought i'd add to this. I've just riveted my floor on, i had drilled all the holes
in thr chassis (and ally floor) already (if doing it again i'd have only drilled every other hole) I have used countersunk rivets with pu in
every other hole, then when i put the side panels on, nice and flush i'm going to rivet through both the side panel and floor into the remaining
holes..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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NS Dev
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 09:41 AM |
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I the end I put my side panels over the rivets holding the floor on, and just beat the ally with the nylon hammer along the line of rivets so i could
see where they were, then drilled in between the existing floor rivets and rivetted the side on. Means the floor is VERY securely rivetted at the
outer edge!
Didn't look bad like I thought it would so wasn't the big issue I thought it would be!
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indykid
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 09:43 AM |
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just out of interest, what's the obsession with rivetting side panels on?
my side panels on the indy have not a single rivet in them, purely sikaflex.
please don't see this as facetious, just curious.
tom
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ned
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 09:59 AM |
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indykid, are your sidepanels grp or ally?
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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NS Dev
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 12:25 PM |
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Rivets + PU are quite a lot stronger than PU alone. Pu is very strong but not so good in "peel" conditions.
To be fair, these conditions will probably never really exist on a locost except in a crash, but it is this reason that Lotus had to use rivet type
fasteners in addition to adhesive on the Elise.
Having said all that, PU alone should be fine on locost bodywork. I think if I were using GRP sidepanels, I would have used PU alone as it would
probably be as strong as the GRP it was attached to!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/5/05 at 12:38 PM |
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I haven't made the alloy or steel choice yet To change the subject what the opinions on swaging the floor to stiffen it.
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