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Author: Subject: R1 catastrophic oil leak - inspect/rebuild/replace?
JekRankin

posted on 24/9/19 at 08:35 AM Reply With Quote
R1 catastrophic oil leak - inspect/rebuild/replace?

So the oil pressure take off on my 2003 R1 engine vibrated loose yesterday at high rpm(drilled and tapped oil cooler bolt). Plumes of smoke as oil sprayed over the manifold and engine bay. Even managed to get it on the front and rear brakes. Thankfully, no fire.

Car is now off the road for winter while I decide what to do...

I lost about 2.25 litres of oil. Sump capacity 3.8L, if I recall correctly.
I don't recall seeing the oil pressure alarm trigger, but I may have been distracted by the apparent fire under the bonnet.
Engine appears to run fine without knocks, although hot oil pressure at idle seems to have dropped a few psi (reading 3-4psi on the Digidash)

Pretty unfortunate since it was a fairly fresh engine and had done less than 2000 miles in my car.

The priority now is to make sure the car is ready for next season without any worries over lurking engine issues.

What's the best approach to assess potential damage?

- Drain oil and remove sump to check for metal particles?
- Remove engine and post it to Andy Bates for a strip down?
- Cut losses, source a new engine and replace

Any advice gratefully received!

Jek

[Edited on 24/9/19 by JekRankin]

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nick205

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:09 AM Reply With Quote
How much is a AB strip down and rebuild?

How much is another engine?

Personally I'd be looking at keeping the spend down, but ensuring (as you say) you're free of engine worries next season.

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JekRankin

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
Not sure about the engine cost. Canít see any 5pw engines for sale at the moment, I guess theyíre getting pretty old now. At a guess, around a grand, maybe a little more for a good condition one.

Would need to check with Andy, but a strip down and build is in the order of £600, plus parts, I think? So I guess at a min thatís a full set of gaskets.

Jek

[Edited on 24/9/19 by JekRankin]

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TimC

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:23 AM Reply With Quote
I lost an oil cooler hose on track last month. Same scenario - oil everywhere, including over the manifold. Was spinning before I got to see the oil warning light.

I appear to have got lucky - everything is fine and I managed to get it all back together to do another 20ish laps of Llandow in the afternoon. I donít have any drop-off in PSI mercifully.

As much as Iíve got a huge amount of time for Andy, surely thereís someone in your part of the world who can take a look? Itís not like Andy likes Yamahas particularly. Youíll presumably spend £120 just getting the engine to-and-from AB before theyíve even looked at it?






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adithorp

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:41 AM Reply With Quote
Personally I'd change the oil and if that looks ok, book a track day and thrash it. If it survives that then job done. If there's and sign of damage in the oil (or you don't fancy the risk) then get it rebuilt. I've got a number of a guy in Lancs who did mine if you want it. He builds engines for guys for some SuperBike teams so you could go for a bit more power at the same time. AB is good but not a Yam' man where Kev is (and he's not as far away).





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JekRankin

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:48 AM Reply With Quote
Hi Tim,

Sounds like a lucky escape!

I don't really have the means to transport an engine myself, so I'd be looking at pallet delivery anyways. I don't know of anyone in Scotland, and I'm pretty careful about who I use these days....had too many bad experiences! :-)

I guess as a first port of call, I'll take the sump off.

Jek

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JekRankin

posted on 24/9/19 at 09:51 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Personally I'd change the oil and if that looks ok, book a track day and thrash it. If it survives that then job done. If there's and sign of damage in the oil (or you don't fancy the risk) then get it rebuilt. I've got a number of a guy in Lancs who did mine if you want it. He builds engines for guys for some SuperBike teams so you could go for a bit more power at the same time. AB is good but not a Yam' man where Kev is (and he's not as far away).


Thanks for the tips Adi, sounds sensible. Could you maybe u2u his details if the oil comes out all glittery?

Jek

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adithorp

posted on 24/9/19 at 10:28 AM Reply With Quote
Sent contact number. He rebuilt mine after I blew the head gasket and damaged the head (inc' porting). About 18k on it since and going strong.





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MikeRJ

posted on 24/9/19 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Personally I'd change the oil and if that looks ok, book a track day and thrash it. If it survives that then job done.


And if the engine trashes itself you'll have wished to be a bit more cautious.

If hot oil pressure has pretty much halved, then some damage has been done.

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TimC

posted on 24/9/19 at 04:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JekRankin

Sounds like a lucky escape!

Jek


Oil
Oil

If you look closely, youíll see the oil all over it.

Once the clean-up was done, I found a local hardware store and bought 4 jubilee clips for the ďno clips needed, push-on hosesí which got me through the afternoon. Iíve since been an had nice new seated braided lines made at Pirtek.






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JekRankin

posted on 24/9/19 at 05:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Sent contact number. He rebuilt mine after I blew the head gasket and damaged the head (inc' porting). About 18k on it since and going strong.


Got it, thanks!

I found their website...so it's 900+VAT and parts for a typical inline 4 cyl rebuild.

Looks like the cranks on these engines can't be reground due to bearing availability, so if its been starved of oil, I guess it's likely to need a new crank.

So it's going to be an expensive exercise if a rebuild is needed, but then, I wonder what the chances are of finding a nice 5pw engine are these days. The bikes are 15 years old now!


Jek

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TimC

posted on 24/9/19 at 08:23 PM Reply With Quote
If memory serves, most of the motor is as per 4XV/5JJ albeit, as LSDWEB on here found, the TBs donít fit on the carb inlets.

[Edited on 24/9/19 by TimC]






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Andy B

posted on 25/9/19 at 07:52 PM Reply With Quote
Whilst we specialise in Honda Iíve rebuilt dozens of R1s over the years and indeed Busas and many other motors
We charge £500 plus parts plus vat to strip and rebuild a motor
In addition if we strip and the motor is beyond repair there is no charge
Best regards
Andy

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JekRankin

posted on 24/10/19 at 08:51 AM Reply With Quote
Finally got round to looking into this in a bit more detail...

Started the car up and let it the oil warm up. Only 2psi showing on the dash at hot idle. Drained the oil and found signs of metal shavings particulates. I was going to cut open the oil filter, but by this stage I think I'd seen enough - looks like I've killed it.

Jek

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TimC

posted on 24/10/19 at 10:24 AM Reply With Quote
I empathise - my Aintree trackday with its sustained high speed/revs back-straight seemingly highlighted that I had somehow suffered from the loss of pressure.

Iíve lost a cylinder and once it stopped, it wouldnít run. I too have Ďkilled it.í

Iíve not yet pulled the engine to see what is what but will be in the market for a replacement once finances have recovered from recent Ďhome improvements.í

Edit to add: Iíve always had a cracked crankcase so am not considering a rebuild of this one. I will salvage as many good parts as I can.

[Edited on 24/10/19 by TimC]






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