Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
New Topic New Reply
Author: Subject: Turbo Jenvey Zetec
Robbaa

posted on 7/1/20 at 05:24 PM Reply With Quote
Turbo Jenvey Zetec

Right then, its still winter so the mods still count

i have a Luego Viento with a zetec blacktop and jenvey (the red ones) ITB's with fast road cams currently sitting at 700kg and 185BHP and revs to 7500

what i am considering is turbocharging using the jenveys, i have seen it done before and jenvey actually make a plenum for it(but too much dolla for me).

im considering using a GTIR nissan pulsar intake plenum and an adapter plate to bolt to the jenvey side


the cars running an omex 200 (think the basically rebadged megajolt i think it was)

not yet found the manifold or turbo parts yet but from bailey performance and others that have turbo'd a zetec im understanding approx 11psi and 240-250 bhp is about the limit for standard internals (that will be for now, then forged in the future)

type 9 gearbox im hoping to leave for a bit but understand this is a bit risky

the brakes are standard sierras with green stuffs and vented/grooved so if they are good enough for a car weighing twice mine it should be ok.


ill head back to standard cams and modify the sump, and coolant lines for the turbo \

has anyone any experience with this or see any major issues?

cheers, Rob

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 7/1/20 at 05:46 PM Reply With Quote
Any chance of some photos of the Zetec in the Viento please ?

I have just bought a Viento but am 75% through turbo charging a Zetec in an mk Indy. ( not finished as I keep changing the spec ). I keep having thoughts of raiding it for parts for the Viento but keep thinking of more displacement.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
number-1

posted on 7/1/20 at 07:25 PM Reply With Quote
Ohhhhh i like the sound of this thread!!! Do you have room to house the turbo?
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 7/1/20 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote
Turbo is the easy bit. Inlet is a bit harder and charge cooling the biggest pita and getting it all plumbed neatly together in a standard 7.

My current spec,

Engine is a St170 / blacktop hybrid. 9:1 Cr.
Turbo, I have a few but Iíve settled on the Impreza Td04.
Exhaust manifold is a reworked ford manifold.
Inlet, I have a few but Iíve settled on the Mk1 Focus Rs, has 440cc injectors.
Engine management is the mk1 Focus Rs.

Cooling, I am more concerned about this than anything else. Coolex rad and intercooler.









[Edited on 7/1/20 by big_wasa]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Shooter63

posted on 7/1/20 at 08:47 PM Reply With Quote
I've just more or less finished exactly that, Zetec turbo using jenveys and a gtir plenum, but in a stylus, if you want I'll take a piccy of the install at the weekend

Shooter

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 7/1/20 at 08:58 PM Reply With Quote
A vid of you blipping the throttle would be even better
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Shooter63

posted on 7/1/20 at 09:22 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
A vid of you blipping the throttle would be even better


Your not wrong, unfortunately I've got the wiring to do and exhaust to fit, as we speak the ECU is at Emeralds to be upgraded to K3 to allow triple mapping etc

Shooter

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 7/1/20 at 09:47 PM Reply With Quote
The throttle response on Itbís should be really crisp.

Iíve also modified a Gbs plenum but I am un sure what boost it will hold.
I know my focus manifold will stand up as itís tried and tested.

https://youtu.be/afwiOZWXQKk

[Edited on 7/1/20 by big_wasa]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
theduck

posted on 8/1/20 at 11:59 AM Reply With Quote
Sell the jenveys and go for a single throttle body and remove a massive load of headache as well as having slightly fuller wallet.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jeffw

posted on 8/1/20 at 01:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robbaa
the cars running an omex 200 (think the basically rebadged megajolt i think it was)



Nothing what so ever to do with Megajolt. Omex 200 is their ignition only ECU http://omextechnology.co.uk/ecu-200.html. You will need a Omex 600 or equivalent for the Jenvey ITBs and I suspect that is what you have and not the 200.

[Edited on 8/1/20 by jeffw]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Robbaa

posted on 9/1/20 at 03:23 PM Reply With Quote
Wasa happy to send photos if you feel like PMing my your email (makes it easier).

my plan has gone somewhat up the swanny as the guy selling the plenum is ghosting me suddenly and DANST engineering said he could happily make me the adapter plate and then suddenly put his price up on that piece as soon as i showed interest so out of principle ill want to go somewhere else now


the viento has tonnes of room in the engine bay and it looks like no problem whatsoever with fitting

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 9/1/20 at 05:05 PM Reply With Quote
You have pm
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Robbaa

posted on 11/1/20 at 06:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
You have pm


you have email

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jossey

posted on 12/1/20 at 08:43 AM Reply With Quote
As mentioned above getting the turbo running well is easy. Not that cheap but good value for money for the bhp increase

So I had a zetec conversion using a modified jenvey plenham which was good. My issues came from heat heat heat

So after several failed trackdays due to heat issues here are my thoughts

Big arse charge coolers work well but restrict the rad working well so use one but give it some room behind the rad.

A big arse radiator. On trackdays mine would stay stable under 100 if I removed my mesh grill off the westfield.

Bigger expansion tank was needed due to rad size but my bottle caps wouldn't last too long. I think I needed one without the pressure limit but unsure never solved that one but the tops cost me a few quid

Hoses near the turbo didn't fair well at all so try use metal around here main ones are the turbo the silicone braided ones burnt up pretty quick

Resolved this with the turbo blankets which also saved my bonnet which used to change colour on trackdays from yellow to orange and eventually stained.

Then came getting the heat out. I've seen people like Dave binns and others cutting the sides off and putting the side vent carbon bits on. I didn't want to do that but in hindsight probably would have been easier than all the messing I had to do to get the temps down.

Then came oil temp even adding the raceline sump didn't help too much needed to add a oil cooler which I placed on its side near the front wishbones getting cool air from the gaps there. Got them under 100 most of the time so happy.

Then the hose from the rad coming past the turbo needed moving or recovering as that got so hot it melted the cable ties about a foot away from the turbo so this was moved to the bottom of the chassis rail.

So this took me about 6 or 7 trackdays just to solve these issues but after this never over boiled anymore. I used the big expansion tank off the mini the round one but only filled up to 10 percent and when hot would be 80 percent full so a big expansion space needed.

Car ran for about another 6 trackdays without engine issues then the crank started knocking at angelsey which I think was oil related and my fault. So we replaced the crank another standard one and new ARP bolts and also the head skimming as the heat issues caused some serious warping and was fine again until I sold it.

Final numbers after reducing boost to 18psi I think. 269hp with td04 turbo and 625 Siemans Daka injectors

Best of luck with the build. Also keep a bit of distance between the back of the thermostat and the chassis mine was too close and smashed the thermostat housing if I used launch control.

We tried to keep it back to give more room for the charge cooler but was about 15mm and meant that it moved on the mounts a little and would spew hot water everywhere under the scuttle.

Final step I did was removed one of the 2 charge cooler rads to improve rad temps which apart from hot trackdays then sat pretty happy at 85 with the new fan I bought from VHS hydraulics that was the best mod to finally resolve the issues I had.

Newpicdavej
Newpicdavej


[Edited on 12/1/20 by jossey]





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
Robbaa

posted on 14/1/20 at 08:51 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
As mentioned above getting the turbo running well is easy. Not that cheap but good value for money for the bhp increase

So I had a zetec conversion using a modified jenvey plenham which was good. My issues came from heat heat heat

So after several failed trackdays due to heat issues here are my thoughts

Big arse charge coolers work well but restrict the rad working well so use one but give it some room behind the rad.

A big arse radiator. On trackdays mine would stay stable under 100 if I removed my mesh grill off the westfield.

Bigger expansion tank was needed due to rad size but my bottle caps wouldn't last too long. I think I needed one without the pressure limit but unsure never solved that one but the tops cost me a few quid

Hoses near the turbo didn't fair well at all so try use metal around here main ones are the turbo the silicone braided ones burnt up pretty quick

Resolved this with the turbo blankets which also saved my bonnet which used to change colour on trackdays from yellow to orange and eventually stained.

Then came getting the heat out. I've seen people like Dave binns and others cutting the sides off and putting the side vent carbon bits on. I didn't want to do that but in hindsight probably would have been easier than all the messing I had to do to get the temps down.

Then came oil temp even adding the raceline sump didn't help too much needed to add a oil cooler which I placed on its side near the front wishbones getting cool air from the gaps there. Got them under 100 most of the time so happy.

Then the hose from the rad coming past the turbo needed moving or recovering as that got so hot it melted the cable ties about a foot away from the turbo so this was moved to the bottom of the chassis rail.

So this took me about 6 or 7 trackdays just to solve these issues but after this never over boiled anymore. I used the big expansion tank off the mini the round one but only filled up to 10 percent and when hot would be 80 percent full so a big expansion space needed.

Car ran for about another 6 trackdays without engine issues then the crank started knocking at angelsey which I think was oil related and my fault. So we replaced the crank another standard one and new ARP bolts and also the head skimming as the heat issues caused some serious warping and was fine again until I sold it.

Final numbers after reducing boost to 18psi I think. 269hp with td04 turbo and 625 Siemans Daka injectors

Best of luck with the build. Also keep a bit of distance between the back of the thermostat and the chassis mine was too close and smashed the thermostat housing if I used launch control.

We tried to keep it back to give more room for the charge cooler but was about 15mm and meant that it moved on the mounts a little and would spew hot water everywhere under the scuttle.

Final step I did was removed one of the 2 charge cooler rads to improve rad temps which apart from hot trackdays then sat pretty happy at 85 with the new fan I bought from VHS hydraulics that was the best mod to finally resolve the issues I had.

Newpicdavej
Newpicdavej


[Edited on 12/1/20 by jossey]




thanks for the reply, im going to slowly gather the bits and see what i can do. ill also have a proper sit down and thnk about its worth but we all love turbo noises!...

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 14/1/20 at 10:29 AM Reply With Quote
I am thinking heat management may be a touch easier in the bigger Viento.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jossey

posted on 14/1/20 at 07:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I am thinking heat management may be a touch easier in the bigger Viento.


I think your right on that one.

David





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
jeffw

posted on 14/1/20 at 07:40 PM Reply With Quote
You'll still struggle, never ending cycle of bigger intercoolers, oil coolers, water rads & fans.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
big_wasa

posted on 14/1/20 at 08:41 PM Reply With Quote
Any tips ?

You have had a big power Zetec ?

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jossey

posted on 14/1/20 at 10:24 PM Reply With Quote
As Jeff says it's forever cycle. My guide above got me 269hp and reliable temps but the engine was too far gone by that stage and I lost the love after the rebuild so sold it.

My advise get an 1.6 EcoBoost it's designed for the turbo and cut big arse holes in ye sides and bonnet





Thanks



David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
jeffw

posted on 14/1/20 at 10:43 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Any tips ?

You have had a big power Zetec ?


I did, 400BHP/300 ft lb but supercharged not turbo in a Phoenix not a 7 shape. Everything is compromised because you simple don't have the space. Make sure you think about getting air out of the engine bay, it is easy to end up trapping hot air in there. Think about ceramic coating the exhaust headers, shields on the turbos etc.

Stay away from charge coolers as they will work initial and then the water gets saturated with heat and you end up with 60-70 deg intake temps.

Proper intercoolers are worth every penny, the ones on Ebay are normally crap and don't drop the temps very well and have massive pressure losses.

Make sure you heat insulate any wiring etc as it gets crispy very quickly. Get a good water system and pay lots of attention to crankcase breathers and head breathers (don't join them together as you will end up blowing the oil out). Use the blacktop crankcase breather system to a baffled catch tank.

The Zeus runs 1.7-1.8 bar of boost and the intake temps are 10-12 deg over ambianent, the Phoenix would be 20-30 deg over on the same boost. The Zeus intercooler is on a massive side NACA duct and is 2-3 times to the width of the Phoenix one.

Cold air intake is a must and so is the biggest cone airfilter you can get in the car.

Just some thoughts..

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
djtom

posted on 14/1/20 at 11:09 PM Reply With Quote
Agree with all the above - getting the turbo installed, mapped and running well is the easy bit.

Heat management has been by far the biggest issue - I built my Zetec Turbo about 10 years ago and there are still improvements that I make every year as I find the next weakest link in the system. It's been a long journey of melting things, replacing them, shielding them, uprating them, increasing rad size and thickness, chopping holes in bodywork to better vent the hot air, etc etc.

I've ended up running the biggest rad that will physically fit in the nose, ducted so that every last bit of air goes through it, and a big oil cooler, and a big chargecooler rad as well, with lots of vents chopped in the body to get rid of the hot air. It all gets a bit congested in the nose, and there's a lot more piping and wiring to fit in and to protect than in a NA installation.

Having said that, it's hilariously quick, makes whooshy turbo noises, it finally seems to be reliable (crossed fingers!), and nothing much goes past it on the average trackday.

On that note, be warned that having more usable power also then means that you'll quickly become aware of the limitations of your brakes, tyres and handling in particular, and all of which you will then throw money at upgrading! Go into it with your eyes open. It is a lot of fun and I've loved solving the engineering challenges at each step, but there's a strong argument for sticking with a nice tractable 175bhp NA engine and spending the thousands that you'll save yourself on trackdays, driving tuition and just using the car more....

[Edited on 14/1/20 by djtom]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
jeffw

posted on 15/1/20 at 06:43 AM Reply With Quote
And, last but not least, if you get towards the power the Phoenix was making you will be rebuilding your highly expensive modified Type 9 (BGH E8, Quaife etc etc) pretty often. A stock Type 9 will not cope with much over 200 ft lb torque. I ended up (after the 4th rebuild) going to a Quaife 60G with paddles which was an extra £10k+ once fitted/running.

The sweet spot on a Zetec is probable a ST170 or Blacktop, nice Neil Roper head, set of decent cams, arp crank bolts, Omex throttle bodies, Raceline water rail and sump running via a nice TTV flywheel into a decent clutch. Put a BGH E8 on the back and fit Omex/Emerald etc management and it will be a happy engine with little drama and make 210ish BHP while remaining reliable and useable on the roads. If the worse happens you take the expensive bits off the old engine and put them all on a 2nd hand engine and start again.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.