David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 08:31 AM |
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Crossflow pressurised plumbing
OK, I'm now seriously thinking about converting my crossflow to a pressurised cooling system, instead of the existing non-pressurised overflow
setup. Trouble is, I know three-fifths of sod-all about how these are plumbed in so I need some advice...
1. What's a good header tank to use?
2. Does the tank have to be higher than the Fiesta-style thermostat casing? (it would be difficult! )
3. The existing system runs at 13psi, but most of the later Escort and Sierra systems seem to run at 19 or 20 psi - would this be a problem? (it would
increase the water's boiling point, which is a bonus).
4. As far as I can tell, I need to put a 'Y-piece' into the pipe between the inlet manifold connection and the secondary water pump inlet,
and take a pipe from that to the big connector on the bottom of the header tank - is this correct?
5. Then I replace the existing pressure cap with a dummy cap, and take a tube from the vent pipe to the small inlet on the header tank - correct?
6. How have people run these pipes? There's no obvious tidy route to the firewall. If anyone has a nice picture of their x-flow's
plumbing then I'd like to see it!
cheers for any info,
David
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James
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 11:41 AM |
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I'm using a Pinto with Micra rad but-
1) Astra seems a winner. Has a couple of convenient mounts too. I can't remember the in/outlet sizes but was around 10mm inlet and 16mm outlet.
I can check late tonight if you need to know.
2) Clearly I'm not an expert but when filling/bleeding I believe you definately want it the highest point in the system. And preferably in
general running too so that air locks collect there as opposed to elsewhere in the system.
Whether you could get away with having the tank lower during normal operation and just lifting higher for bleeding/filling is something that might be
worth investigating. You could keep the weight lower then too! 
That's probably something I'll experiment with.
3) Not sure- far too technical for me!
4) My secondary pump inlet is fed by header output. Not 'Y's in the system at all.
5) I just blocked off the rad pressure cap and vent tube so they're not an issue.
HTH,
James
P.S. I cleaned mine very effectively with paraffin for grime on outside then soaking tank in bucket of water/washing powder for few days. I even put
powder inside tank IIRC.
[Edited on 15/2/05 by James]
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paulf
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 12:10 PM |
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I used a header tank from a Rover SD1,it is a brass type tank and is attached with a seperate clamp bracket and has a 15psi pressure cap.To plumb into
the system I made a T fitting for the manifold outlet and ran a pipe back to the tank mounted on the bulkhead. i used a fiesta thermostat housing and
ran the air bleed back to the header tank fitting. There is also a pipe for an overflow fitted to the pressure cap mounting.
Paul.
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wicket
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 12:22 PM |
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David
We are using a Mercedes 190 rad which has a take off point at the bottom as well as the normal in and out connections. The header tank is from a
Rover 200/400 (not sure which now) and is mounted on the bulkhead so that its at the highest point in the system.
The connections are:-
a) top rad connection goes to the Fiesta thermostat housing
b) bottom rad connection to water pump
c) small water pump connection to inlet manifold
d) small take off pipe at the bottom of the rad to the larger (bottom) pipe on the header tank
e) vent pipe on the thermostat housing to the small (top) pipe on the header tank.
The solid pipe work is made up from various bits of domestic plumbing copper pipe and fittings in 15, 22 and 28mm diameter with olives soldered on
each end to act as hose retainers, and painted black; the rubber pipe work is standard 90 deg elbows and pipe from the local motorfactors.
I will post some pictures in the archive of our arrangement later today.
Eric
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 01:50 PM |
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Dave,
Thanks for that...
Could a thermo cover with cap be used, if it's fitted with a dummy cap? The type that just seals the lid and doesn't obstruct the
'overflow'?
And to everyone else, thanks for the suggestions so far - keep them coming - they've given me a heap of ideas to think about.
cheers,
David
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barrie sharp
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 02:22 PM |
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quote:
Could a thermo cover with cap be used, if it's fitted with a dummy cap? The type that just seals the lid and doesn't obstruct the
'overflow'?
David thats what i done but havent run it in the summer yet but done about 1000 miles through winter and all is ok.
the system is the same as daves but with out the heater.
barrie
the cars looking good" a blind man would be pleased to see it"
''stop press'' the blind mans seen it said "it felt ok"
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 10:17 PM |
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Hmm - never seen one of them - what's it off?
David
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Marcus
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 09:51 PM |
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The one on the left is available from Burtons for reasonable money, sold originally as a formula Ford item. Can't remember seeing one on an XR2
though.
Marcus
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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Stu16v
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 10:11 PM |
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The one with the cap on will work equally as well. Just replace the pressure cap with a blanking flat cap (commonly found on lots of BL cars running
similar systems). Ran that type, and plumbed as Daves diagram on my Westie with no probs.
HTH Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/2/05 at 08:26 AM |
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That suits me fine (it's what I've got already!)
All I need is a header tank, some hose and a few clips...
...oh, and a Y- or T-piece, which I can fabricate.
David
[Edited on 17/2/05 by David Jenkins]
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wicket
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 10:59 AM |
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Pictures now in archive.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 12:45 PM |
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Thanks Eric!
A picture is worth a thousand whatsits, so they say...
...and what a neat layout!
This leads to 3 further questions:
1. How did you secure the overflow pipe across the top of the engine?
2. Was the T-pice on the inlet manifold a stock item?
3. What was the donor for the header tank?
Cheers! (he said, cheekily)
David
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wicket
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 03:06 PM |
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David
1. The pipe runs along side the rocker cover and is secured to a small bracket which is fitted under one of the carb nuts and the pipe is fixed to the
bracket with a tiewrap.
2. It was on the manifold when purchased. I think Burton Power do several versions.
3. It was marked as Rover 200/400 when I picked it up at the scrappie.
Hope that helps; let em know if you want any more info or pics
Eric
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/2/05 at 03:30 PM |
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Anyone else know where I can get a manifold T-piece like wicket's got in his pictures?
It's a 3/8" NPT male that screws into the manifold, with 2 pipes for clamping hose on to.
Burton's didn't have anything suitable - for a change they knew exactly what I wanted - still didn't have one, though... 
David
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clbarclay
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| posted on 21/2/05 at 05:20 PM |
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Why can't you just split the pipe from the manifold and put a T-peice into that instead of between that pipe and the manifold.
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paulf
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| posted on 21/2/05 at 06:48 PM |
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I made one just like that, from a threaded fitting and some 15mm copper plumbing fittings, i made the fitting from an old pipe fitting and turned
downd to fit into a 15mm copper Tee. I then soldered a short piece of 15mm pipe into each end of the tee and fitted a joining sleeve to each side to
make it longer.I used the solder ring type fittings which then provides a lip for the pipe to be clamped to.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Anyone else know where I can get a manifold T-piece like wicket's got in his pictures?
It's a 3/8" NPT male that screws into the manifold, with 2 pipes for clamping hose on to.
Burton's didn't have anything suitable - for a change they knew exactly what I wanted - still didn't have one, though...
David
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/2/05 at 08:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
Why can't you just split the pipe from the manifold and put a T-peice into that instead of between that pipe and the manifold.
Simple - it will look a lot neater!
It's very annoying, 'cos a couple of years ago I'm sure that I took a 2-way screw-in fitting off the engine! I may still have the
old fitting, but I'm not keen to go looking for it in my freezing cold garage - and I doubt that it will be in very good nick anyway.
The last resort is a plain T-piece in the pipe, but doing it right will mean a lot neater arrangement, and it's likely to work better anyway
(less chance of an air lock).
cheers,
David
[Edited on 21/2/05 by David Jenkins]
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stevebubs
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| posted on 21/2/05 at 09:25 PM |
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Have you tried Think Auto?
Could you not use a standard 3/8 NPT T-Piece as sold by Burtons, then get some hose connectors with 3/8NPT mail fittings?
Lot of cuffuffle, though
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 22/2/05 at 08:19 AM |
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I might have a go at making one - the only tricky bit is the NPT thread, and male is a lot easier than female! I know where I can get a threading die
for around £6, so it shouldn't be too hard.
One question for the metalurgists - the manifold is aluminium, and I'd rather not use a material that will react badly over time when in direct
contact. I think brass would be bad, but what about bronze? I believe that ordinary mild steel should be OK, but stainless is more reactive with
ali?
Thinking about it, I have a chunk of aluminium bronze at home looking for a purpose to exist - it's been sitting around 'cos it's
difficult to braze and therefore of little use for model engineering!
rgds,
David
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rayroni
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| posted on 23/3/06 at 03:27 PM |
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I have the same system as Dave A's excellent diagram, with the exception that I have no heater fitted and feed straight from water pump to inlet
manifold - with a tee piece for the system fill from header tank at this point.
However when I rev the engine, the coolant level rises in the header tank (kind of rises and drops with the revs), I haven't got a hole in my
thermosat - could this be the reason (how big should the hole be)?
If not anybody got any other ideas?
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Marcus
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| posted on 23/3/06 at 06:53 PM |
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ISTR the hole in the stat is about 3mm dia.
Don't worry about the levels moving! (unless you're losing water)
Marcus
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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