DarrenW
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| posted on 23/5/05 at 01:51 PM |
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Pinto shortened Sump
Ive just posted a wanted add, but am also thinking of making my own. This has been threaded to death and ive researched the posts so im a bit more
clued up now. Ive also read Jim Stotts (Jimbo) very informative article (posted on RHO site) http://nw.rhocar.org/sump.htm. I have some Q's
please;
1. Has anyone followed Jim's model exactly and done some track work? Does it have enough capacity and surge protection?
2. Does anyone have pics of baffles etc? If im going to get the welder out i may as well do all the mods necessary.
3. Can anyone with Pinto track experience tell me if bigger capacity and good baffles is a must or overkill? Some pics of your sump (external mods and
baffles) will be most helpful.
4. Ive got engine in car - is it easyish to remove sump without taking engine back out (there are no chassis rails in the way on mine).
Any advice in general greatly recieved while i do the research.
ive read James post ref the biscuit tin lid method - good idea. My welding skills are sketchy at best but this idea allows two weld beads (inside and
outside).
Also seen Mark A's - again very interesting.
Its mainly the baffles and preventing oil surge that i cant find much material on.
From research i can see optimum chop is so that sump is just slightly lower than bell housing (with 0.5 - 1 inches).
Thanks in advance,
Darren.
( i cant half waffle cant I???? I must learn to do shorter posts!)
[Edited on 23/5/05 by DarrenW]
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Staple balls
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| posted on 23/5/05 at 02:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
4. Ive got engine in car - is it easyish to remove sump without taking engine back out (there are no chassis rails in the way on mine).
it's totally doable, but a truely unpleasant bast@rd of a job
i suggest using some 12" lengths of m6 studding to guide the sump back on after, it makes it that little bit easier.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 23/5/05 at 06:00 PM |
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The main baffle is just a sheet of 18G steel, with a 2" hole in the right place for the pickup, which has the edges rolled down on a radius of
about 1/2" to let the oil flow nicely, if you have the pdf, you will see the forward baffle.
I have done 4 illicit miles on private roads(!) and 2 miles doing donuts, and not a problem with surge!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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billy
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| posted on 23/5/05 at 06:47 PM |
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i have a alloy shallow sump sat in my garage about to be used at some point, i can take some pics of it if this will help you in any way
luego-lo-cost finished,vauxhall 16v 2.0,twin 45s de-dion rear set up
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/5/05 at 08:25 AM |
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billy - the pics will be a great help, thanks.
Mark - i dont have the pdf (unless you refer to Jimbos from the RH site?), can you send it to me please? Is the main baffle in this pdf? From your
description it sounds like it is a horizontal plate, whereby the oil pickup goes through the 2" hole. Purpose to prevent the oil being sloshed
about forward and back (when acc & braking) and side to side (when cornering). I like your method of extending the tank, it looks like it gives
additional capacity. Did you cut out the full base of the sump or leave this in place to form another type of baffle? (When Jimbo extends his sideways
he suggests vutting Vee 's in the side of sump - Iam guessing you cut Vees in the front of yours to allow the oil to flow restricted into the
forward extension). Did you modify the dipstick? I guess not and just added sufficient oil to come up to the std mark.
This is all difficult to explain with words and im not good enough with puters to draw it!.
I got the sump off last nigt. Not too bad to do. Cleaned up nicely inside with some thinners. Iam surprised at how little you need to take off to be
in line with the bell housing. The mods dont look too difficult now that ive had a look at the sump and a read of Jimbo's article. I think id
prefer to have a bit more oil in there so am favouring Marks mod idea.
Thanks again,
Darren.
PS - ive just seen a cosworth alloy sump on ebay. It has a horizontal baffle in it - is this what you mean Mark? It has a pipe as well, i assume for
feeding oil back in from a catch tank. Should i be thinking about fitting a pipe into my modified sump for this purpose? Is the cossie sump
shorter?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21654&item=4551973644&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[Edited on 24/5/05 by DarrenW]
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 24/5/05 at 06:40 PM |
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Darren,
LOADS of questions! firstly, the main baffle is exactly as you have described it, it restricts the oil from banking up the sides of the sump so there
is always enough over the pickup. I wouldn't have modified the dipstick, except that I didn't think to drill a hole in the baffle. There
was a metallic clang as I pushed the dipstick home, yes it had hit the baffle 1/2" before it was all the way in, so it got chopped.
Most is explained in the pdf (mine, not the hoodies!)
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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DarrenW
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| posted on 24/5/05 at 09:18 PM |
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Mark - many thanks for the pdf file. Thats just what i needed. I wasnt keen on the hoodie idea, it just seemed wrong to me (as do RH's in
general). You have just about answered all of my questions. Sorry for the qty! When i research something i havent done before ive been trained to do
it thoroughly!! lol. Perhaps ive been a touch too thorough / keen this time 
My neighbour owns a fabrication company so i think now is the time to tap him for some off cuts, tack it up myself and then get him to weld it
properley.
One last Q for now - what thickness steel? 3mm for the base sounds good idea but tough to bend, did you use 18 gauge for everywhere else (what is
this in mm?).
Cheers,
Darren.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 24/5/05 at 09:26 PM |
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18swg is about 1.2mm if my memory serves me correctly.
If that sump on ebay is the shorter one that people like, then you may as well buy it and save yourself some hassle....its v cheap at the moment
anyway.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 25/5/05 at 09:01 PM |
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I used 16G, 3mm sounds like a bit on the heavy side, but no road debris could penetrate it!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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DarrenW
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| posted on 26/5/05 at 07:58 AM |
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Progress so far;
Ive got the steel - 16G for sides and 3mm for base.
Sump is mounted to piece of worktop and the bottom cut off. Vees cut and holes positioned.
Today ill be fabricating the sides and base. Im thinking about making the base plate taper to the front by approx 50mm so its above the chassis at the
furthest forward point. This way if i run over anything it'll act as a built in sump guard rather than (brick etc) it hitting the front corner
square on.
My neighbour has a set of oxy acetelene bottles so that i can braze over the welds afterwards to seal them. Ill also be able to remove strainer etc
from pick up pipe.
One thing im unsure of is modding the strainer. I havent taken this off car yet. Im thinking the best method is to offer sump back up before welding
so i can measure how much to shourten it by and also see its position for the new baffle plate (ill also be able to work out where to put dipstick
hole - thanks for the heads up on this).
Im enjoying this mod so far. Its bringing back my earlier days with Golfs and Mini's. A bit of proper diy work. This is what is missing when you
buy a kit.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 7/6/05 at 08:55 AM |
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I followed Marks model. All has worked very well. Leaks were tricky to seal but got there in the end (leave with water in for a day - rust spots can
be seen on outside - easy as that). The only change i made from Marks presentation is that i raised the front end by 2 inches so that if i run over
anything there is less chance if it hitting a square corner and punching a hole. Base is 3mm thick.
Two hole had to be opened up slightly but it went back on very easily. Oil pick up removed by heating and re-welded with JB weld - worked a treat.
Sump is now heavily baffled and armour plated and larger capacity.
Im pleased i did it myself - thanks to all for your help and patience with the short questions!!
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