serendipity123
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 09:01 AM |
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deisel locost
has it been done has anyone built one ? i remember being at santa pod with my buggy and seeing a golf dti drag race ( i think i had a coffee whilst
they did the 1/4 mile). . . wondering peugeot 1.9 dti or audi 2.5v. . . thoughts ideas anyone.
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akumabito
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:09 AM |
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There are a lot of diesel RWD vans out there.. maybe a VW 2.5l turbodiesel?
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donut
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:59 AM |
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I have heard of a chap who put in a 1.9 turbo from a Citroen BX and apparently because of the huge ammounts of torque it went like a train, the chap
was really impressed.
If memory serves me right there is a gearbox from an LDV van that fits straight on (i may be wrong on this ). Either that or i'm sure there will
be a company who can make an adapter plate.
Those engines are superb and would make for an interesting build.
One of our chaps has built a car with a Merc deisel in it which goes very well. It's not a locost design but a one off and it really looks the
part.
Keep us informed if you go ahead with the build.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 11:13 AM |
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Ther used to be a Diesel Westfield , 2.3 Ford I think.........
The idea appeals to me , could be plenty fast enough.............to get you between the speed bumps!!!!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:01 PM |
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It's hardly the ethos that 7's were designed for is it?  Unless you use a pretty modern engine - imagine the particulate smoke
you'll create. Mind you, you'll most likely be at the rear so I gues sit doesn't matter too much
AITBPT -
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akumabito
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:02 PM |
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Loads of torque in a really light car could give you some interesting performance indeed..
And especially the newer turbo-diesel engines are pretty easy to tune for more power. A simple chip can give you some impressive improvements..
Now a bigger intercooler + larger injectors + a new chip would be nice!
Hmm.. if you can find the space to fit a large intercooler that is..
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:07 PM |
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No matter how quick a diesel car is, IMHO they are still boring and frustrating to drive. Ive got a ~150bhp TDi Bora and although its about as quick
as the average GTi in real terms, because all the grunt is in the mid-range and the power drops off as it revs higher, its about as unsporty to drive
as you can get.
Unless you're going to be doing 15k+ a year in a kit car, you arent really going to save a huge amount on fuel, and because you'll be
doing an install that hasnt been done before it could easily end up costing you £500-1000 more to install, thus negating any fuel savings for the
first 50k miles or so! Also when it comes to selling it I can't imagine there being a huge market for it in comparison to a decent car engine
install, so you'll possibly lose out there too.
Chris
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akumabito
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It's hardly the ethos that 7's were designed for is it? Unless you use a pretty modern engine - imagine the particulate smoke
you'll create. Mind you, you'll most likely be at the rear so I gues sit doesn't matter too much
AITBPT -
Well, if you look at VW engines.. their 2.0 GTI engine delivers a max of 180 NM of torque, while the 1.9 TDI engine gives you 235 NM.. on long
straight parts a petrol engine may be faster, but the diesel should, at least in theory, accelerate out of corners faster..
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serendipity123
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:11 PM |
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i might just do it for a laugh.
pmsl
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:15 PM |
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volvo 740 , has Vw/audi 6 cyl diesel , that can be tuned up to 225 bhp and about 350 ft/lbs torque .
Hmm , ive engineered my chassis to fit all volvo engines !!
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by akumabito
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It's hardly the ethos that 7's were designed for is it? Unless you use a pretty modern engine - imagine the particulate smoke
you'll create. Mind you, you'll most likely be at the rear so I gues sit doesn't matter too much
AITBPT -
Well, if you look at VW engines.. their 2.0 GTI engine delivers a max of 180 NM of torque, while the 1.9 TDI engine gives you 235 NM.. on long
straight parts a petrol engine may be faster, but the diesel should, at least in theory, accelerate out of corners faster..
You're assuming both cars have the same gearbox ratios, which they won't have because the car revs to ~7k whereas the diesel only revs to
~4,500 so needs much longer gearing to cope with normal road speeds. The only benefit you get from the torquey midrange of a diesel is that at normal
road speeds you rarely need to change down to access maximum acceleration, because your revs are usually around 2k or so, so right on peak torque. If
you're driving spiritedly though, you'll always be in the right gear coming out of a corner so the petrol will accelerate at least as
quickly.
serendipity - by all means build it for a laugh, should be an interesting project. Just wanted to point out the possible pitfalls as in your other
thread on LPG you seemed to be looking to save money by choosing LPG / diesel.
cheers
Chris
[Edited on 3/9/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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zilspeed
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:51 PM |
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Diesel Locost ?
No thanks.
IMHO it's all about having a wide power band, bouncing off the rev limiter, snappy gearchanges and excellent throttle response. At least
that's my take on lightweight sportscars. A diesel is none of the above, and to hell with the mpg.
My daily drive as some of you know is now an Audi TDI.
50mpg, yes.
Fun, no.
Hits a brick wall at 4000rpm, whereas last week at the hillclimb in the GTM I was never under 4000 rpm.
P.S. Diesel westfield. It was a ford 1.8 turbodiesel and the builder / engineer was Richard Wilshier - ex motoring journalist.
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Liam
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 12:57 PM |
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Nailed it in one Chris. Comparing engine torque figures is useless unless they operate at the same rpms. It's torque at the wheels that
matters, which will be largely the same with, say, a 150 bhp diesel engine, petrol engine, or even bike engine, assuming they are geared to do the
same road speeds through the gears, despite the hugely varying torque figures of the engines.
Going from bec, through petrol, to diesel, you're looking at wider and wider torque bands giving easier lazy driveability at the price of
seriously increasing weight and the loss of anything feeling like sportyness (which in engine terms can be characterised by high revving,
responsiveness and performance that increases the more you rev them - not diesel engine traits).
I could personally not live without the smell of the petrol at the fuel station, but you build what you want!
Liam
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serendipity123
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 02:31 PM |
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ok ok ok
i get the point, i am currently building/ finishing off my 7 fzr1000 bec. . . . diesel was just a thought. dont hate me for it.
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 02:48 PM |
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**** the ethos think of the MPG
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 05:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by akumabito
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
It's hardly the ethos that 7's were designed for is it? Unless you use a pretty modern engine - imagine the particulate smoke
you'll create. Mind you, you'll most likely be at the rear so I gues sit doesn't matter too much
AITBPT -
Well, if you look at VW engines.. their 2.0 GTI engine delivers a max of 180 NM of torque, while the 1.9 TDI engine gives you 235 NM.. on long
straight parts a petrol engine may be faster, but the diesel should, at least in theory, accelerate out of corners faster..
I know - I have a 2.0TDI (PDI) with 140bhp 236Nm of torque... its just B O R I N .... oh sorry, I nodded off... WHAT DID YOU SAY? Couldn't
hear for the clatter of the diesel engine - who said that - couldn't see you for the smoke! Jesus... get your Sherman Tank off my toe, oh sorry
mate didn't realise it was a lightweight 7 type car. WHY... I mean some on.... HEHEHEHE!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 3-9-05 by Hellfire]
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UncleFista
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 06:03 PM |
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Doesn't matter how fast it'd be, you'll always be at the back of any convoys. I'd not travel behind you 
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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akumabito
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 06:22 PM |
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Ford Powerstroke diesel engines are very popular at the trucks-only version of NASCAR..
But then again, Powerstrokes weigh just about as much as a complete Seven would..
Peugeot plans on entering Le mans next year with a diesel powered vehicle...
And this diesel dragster runs sub-8 second times... http://www.cumminsracing.com/
[Edited on 3/9/05 by akumabito]
[Edited on 3/9/05 by akumabito]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 06:46 PM |
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didnt cummins win at indy cos they stopped for fuel less and BMW had a 3 seried oil burner doing spa 24hour
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 07:30 PM |
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ooooooooooo , powerstroke , would their intercooler as an upgrade , wouldnt fit in the seven - its almost as wide as the cockpit
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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akumabito
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 07:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
ooooooooooo , powerstroke , would their intercooler as an upgrade , wouldnt fit in the seven - its almost as wide as the cockpit
I know! That intercooler is enormous!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 09:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
P.S. Diesel westfield. It was a ford 1.8 turbodiesel and the builder / engineer was Richard Wilshier - ex motoring journalist.
The old 1.8 engine as used in the Escorts and early Mondeo's? Quite possibly, in fact almost certainly one of the worst "modern"
car diesel engines ever produced, it's awfull. The Pug/Cit XUD is in a different league in terms of refinement and performance.
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crbrlfrost
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 04:21 AM |
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Personally, I think it sounds like an interesting challenge. But would be particularly geared toward a middy. Use the standard trans, lightweight
flywheel and a few tuning parts. I don't know what the weights are on newer 4cyl diesels, but I'm guessing they can't be to much
worse then old iron pinto motors. Just a matter of gearing, unless an high rpm shreik is your thing (yes, they're glorious). My tdi pulls well
in 3rd from 30-75, and I find it pretty fun to drive down back roads, but wringing the most out of anything is fun isn't it? Anyway, happy
building!
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pbs
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 08:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
P.S. Diesel westfield. It was a ford 1.8 turbodiesel and the builder / engineer was Richard Wilshier - ex motoring journalist.
The old 1.8 engine as used in the Escorts and early Mondeo's? Quite possibly, in fact almost certainly one of the worst "modern"
car diesel engines ever produced, it's awfull. The Pug/Cit XUD is in a different league in terms of refinement and performance.
Your right about the old ford td unit, but this engine was transformed when common rail injection was added and the engine fitted to the Focus as the
TDCi. This engine then became one of the quietest engines in it class and gave 115bhp and 50 mpg. Would be interesting to fit one of these to a locost
but being all cast iron they weigh a ton.
Build your own sports car for £250 my ar5e!!
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donut
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 06:13 PM |
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If you could get hold of a modern deisel then it may be worth looking at as they don't clatter as much as they used to. Also alot of off shore
power boats have deisels and do very well, infact they win more than petrol boats. (different application i know but hey!)
If you could get a smooth new turbo deisel to work then i can't see why it would not be a good idea. Sod the fuel bills, it's not what
7's are about.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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