pathfinder
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 posted on 6/5/06 at 09:58 PM |
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Welding onto Sierra Uprights!
I’m trying to fit a nice set of ap callipers onto my Sierra front uprights and it looks like its going to be a total pain! I’ve considered milling up
some adapter plates but there is very little spare room and I think it would be over complicated. Does anyone see a problem with chopping the old
calliper lugs off and welding on new mounts? Should I use mig or stick?
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RazMan
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:05 PM |
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Are they cast? AFAIK it is not a good idea to weld anything to cast iron, especially not high stress items like brakes.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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andrews_45
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:05 PM |
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As long as you do a proper job it should be ok. BUT BE AWARE this is a serious safety critical bit of kit, so only go ahead if your welding is up to
scratch.
Personally I'd rather do the plate way, might be a bit of a job but I would be happier.
If you do decide to weld any local welding shop/training school will MAG test the welds for you...
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pathfinder
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:10 PM |
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I would hope that they are cast steel and not cast iron!!!
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SeaBass
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pathfinder
I would hope that they are cast steel and not cast iron!!!
Probably not! Why would they be steel?? Most car calipers are iron.. Just like cylinder blocks.
[Edited on 6/5/06 by SeaBass]
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nitram38
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:26 PM |
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Run a grinder on the metal. Cast iron gives off a more redish spark than cast steel.
I would think that the uprights are cast steel that are hardened after machining.
Cast iron is very brittle and shatters easily.
[Edited on 6/5/2006 by nitram38]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SeaBass
Probably not! Why would they be steel?? Most car calipers are iron.. Just like cylinder blocks.
Because cast iron is generaly a very brittle material not very suited for applications where high tensile stress is required. The uprights and
calipers would most likely be steel.
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datz510
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| posted on 6/5/06 at 10:55 PM |
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Most uprights are FORGED Steel. You can tell the difference between forged and cast by looking at the parting line. If it has a wide parting line
that has been ground, it is most likely forged steel, which is perfectly OK to weld to (as long as you use a high output welder suitable for the
task). If the parting line is very narrow and sharp, it is cast.
A parting line on a Forged part:
A Cast parting line:
Once you know the difference, you can tell right away. I've welded lots of forged steel parts with good luck. Just take your time and make
sure all welds penetrate adequately.
[Edited on 6/5/06 by datz510]
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
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britishtrident
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 07:20 AM |
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Strongly advise against no matter what material it is made of caliper lugs are critical and no matter how you design it it is almost inevitable
that you will end up with a stress raiser at exactly the point where the weld will be.
I think you will find it is SG cast iron Ford use SG cast ron where other manufacturers use forgings.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 07:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SeaBass
quote:
Originally posted by pathfinder
I would hope that they are cast steel and not cast iron!!!
Probably not! Why would they be steel?? Most car calipers are iron.. Just like cylinder blocks.
[Edited on 6/5/06 by SeaBass]
I think the OP intends welding on the upright not the caliper.
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coozer
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 posted on 7/5/06 at 07:53 AM |
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I am going to Ford Genk in Belgium where they made the Sierra on Monday, I will ask the questiion.
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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SeaBass
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 09:43 AM |
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Ok
Yes thanks BT...
I was confused thought he was referring to the caliper which IS likely to be cast iron...
Take a look here...
[Edited on 7/5/06 by SeaBass]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 11:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I am going to Ford Genk in Belgium where they made the Sierra on Monday, I will ask the questiion.
Steve
I didn't realise the Belgians made the Sierra on Monday. Just goes to prove the old saying "You learn something new every
day".............
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coozer
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 12:11 PM |
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I knew someone would crack that one LOL.
Point your google earth to GENK Belgium and the Ford plant is next to teh turn in the canal.
Fairly large site.
Nearly all the Sierras were built there and its home to the Mondeo now plus the brand new Galaxy thats just starting.
Only thing they'll be making monday is about 1200 Mondeo's!
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 7/5/06 at 04:48 PM |
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I've posted this so many times I've lost count.....
SIERRA FRONT UPRIGHTS(KNUCKLE ASSEMBLIES) ARE MADE FROM CAST SG IRON.
DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT WELDING TO THEM.
There, I can get my breath back now.
Cheers,
Syd. 
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coozer
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| posted on 8/5/06 at 08:18 PM |
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Just got back from Ford in Belgium. I asked the chassis engineer about welding the uprights and he said NO NO NO!!
The uprights are cast from Spheroidal graphite cast iron. DIN EN 1563. They may be just cast iron, depends on the year, month, day they were cast, but
the DIN drawing spec is the same.
They must not be welded, especially somewhere where they will be under some force. EG caliper mountings!!
Forget welding and make a bracket please. Its safety critical and if someone dies there will be trouble! 
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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NS Dev
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| posted on 9/5/06 at 08:46 AM |
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No need for me to post then, was just about to!
Incidentally, Syd, can you confirm that the cortina uprights are forged steel of some sort? I have welded these successfully and they certainly weld
like steel (and havent broken!)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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datz510
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| posted on 9/5/06 at 06:05 PM |
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Anyone have a photo of the cortina uprights vs the Sierra uprights.. especially the parting lines?
Hang on, we're goin for a ride!
1972 Datsun 510 (1600) w/ 200hp 3.0L V6
1995 Nissan Pathfinder rock crawler
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britishtrident
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| posted on 10/5/06 at 08:13 AM |
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Very easy to tell a steel from a cast iron --- grind or cut cast iron and you get clouds of black carbon dust -- filthy stuff and why many machine
shops are very reluctant to machine cast iron.
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gjs
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 06:26 PM |
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If the spindle is cast with the rest of the upright it surely wont be iron it will be steel
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gjs
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 06:28 PM |
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ned
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 07:15 PM |
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someone has stolen pictures of my uprights
beware, I've got yellow skin
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gazza285
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| posted on 13/6/06 at 07:56 PM |
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Must be something wrong with my computer, I can only see the one picture .
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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