flidz101
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 02:50 PM |
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What engine?
I'm just starting out on the road to building a bec. I've not yet decided on an engine and wanted to canvas your collective opinion.
Basically which engine is best?
I know thats a crap question. What I'm really after is something that compensates ease of build (I'm no engineer) with cost but not at the
expense of power.
I'm thinking 'busa at the moment, but I've heard the loom is really tricky to use. Also its a tad expensive, especially if you go
for a turbo version.
What do you think?
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graememk
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 02:51 PM |
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pinto ?
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mookaloid
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 02:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by graememk
pinto ?
is the 1.3 pinto just about the same as the Busa turbo then Graeme?
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graememk
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 02:57 PM |
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just thought i'd start the thred off with a bang lol
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RichieC
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 03:20 PM |
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If I was doing it again, Id fit a pre 95 blade engine, get it throught SVA then have your choice. This would negate all the hassle with emmissions
etc and you could sell the blade motor for what you paid for it. You might be a bit more expensive in the long run as you may be left with a cradle
etc which is no good for the new engine but again Id argue you could shift them too.
Im sure not everyone would agree but certainly a few BEC builders would.
Rgds
Rich
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donut
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 03:32 PM |
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http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=47012
There ya go!!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 03:38 PM |
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I echoe what rich said which is what I said after passing my SVA
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fesycresy
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 04:13 PM |
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ZX12's seem popular at the moment, but as a first time build I'd use a carb'd R1.
Easy to wire and no power commander to buy, just borrow a cat / rejet for the SVA.
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 04:17 PM |
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A carbed R1 motor is fairly easy (so I've heard and hope!) to get through SVA. The FI is a bit more complex.
If you were to fit a pre cat motor, not only would the cradle be different, but the manifold, gear change mechanism, clutch cable wiring loom/clocks,
cooling system, maybe even propshaft and sprocket adapter along with a new sump baffle plus any extras like a new air filter backplate to fit the
different carb spacings would have to be replaced also.
To be honest I'd persevere with a carbed R1 motor from the start and have a little fiddle to get it through SVA. Apparently Marc says that
carbed R1 motors can pass emissions by weakening off the mixture A LOT. It runs like a dog but then after SVA you could do what you wanted!
Chris.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 04:41 PM |
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Might be worth doing a search 
We really need a sticky thread on this because the same question is coming up about every 2-3 weeks!!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 04:48 PM |
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It really depends on the budget you have available. Passing SVA with a Blade engine and then swapping it afterwards for something newer is a bad idea
IMO. It sounds very easy but in reality it is a load of hassle and not something you'd want to be doing after having built it. Decide on what
engine you want/can afford and then stick with it. If you want Busa power then it's worth considering the ZX12R. If you want ease of build go
for the Blade, if you want cheap go for the ZX9R. If you want slightly more power than the Blade or the ZX9R and have a bigger budget, go for the
R1.
Choices, choices..............................
Phil
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chockymonster
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 04:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston Todge
A carbed R1 motor is fairly easy (so I've heard and hope!) to get through SVA. The FI is a bit more complex.
A bit more? Who told you that! It's much more complex
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:00 PM |
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Agree with Hellfire on the conversion thing. Having done a blade to R1 conversion myself it was a lot of work, I just did it because I wanted the
conversion rather than for any emissions reasons, but however hard it is to get an R1 through SVA, it will be far less work / money than doing a
conversion afterwards.
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RichieC
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:10 PM |
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Hmm I guess there is more to think about only for the sake of SVA so possibly not worth it. Only reason I considered an option as carbed R1s arent as
easy as it sounds here. Possibly didnt make it more obvious but I would have kept the blade motor in for a good while, certainly not just whipped it
out after the test.
FI is in some respects easier - plug your PCIII in, upload the SVA map, pass the test, upload the regular map drive it home.
Unfortunately for me, leaning it off to such a dangerous level isnt an option as the test centre is a good 2 hours drive away. An alternative of
course is to trailer it there - again, not an easy option for me.
[Edited on 16/6/06 by RichieC]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:44 PM |
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When you think about everything thats different, like exhaust manifold, engine cradle, all the plumbing, the prop adapter etc, plus in the case of an
FI engine needing different fuel pump and maybe a different fuel tank too, its not an insignificant sum that you need to invest again to get it all
swapped out. That doesnt take into consideration things like having to strip half the wiring back out, having exhaust manifold holes in the bodywork
not line up, having to run return feeds for the fuel tank etc.
I would say though if you go for the older engine and think you might want to convert later, make sure you think about things like the above and
reduce the problems as much as possible when doing the original build, eg put in a return fuel feed even if you dont use it, buy a fuel tank that is
injection compatible, keep the bike loom wiring as seperate from the lighting/dash loom as possible etc etc.
Chris
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:50 PM |
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Chokymonster, out of interest (because I'll probably be doing it at some stage!)why is the EFI engine more complex? Is it just if you're
not running a PowerCommander that its difficult, cos surely with one of those you can just tweak exact points on your map that need to be sorted for
SVA so should be easier.
Also not sure if its been mentioned before, but it is actually possible to adjust the AFR on the EFI R1 engines just using the ECU. Will have to dig
out the link with instructions if nobody else has it handy
Chris
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fesycresy
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:53 PM |
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Fuel injected motors aren't that more difficult to wire, yep you've got a few more wires but you're only extending them to their new
position. The connectors largely remain the same.
Pick your motor on budget, if you've got the cash go for the ZX or Busa, if not stick with the R1.
If I haven't mentioned before, Hondas suck.
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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chockymonster
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:56 PM |
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Erm, mainly my abilities are causing issues as I'm not mechanically minded, I work in a large investment bank in the live support team!
Most of the MNR guys to have gone carbed sothings aren't as straight forward for those that go R1 FI.
Once it's all plumbed in I reckon it will be easier with the powercommander to set it up. I've got the other instructions somewhere too.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 05:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
If I haven't mentioned before, Hondas suck.
In your opinion.....
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fesycresy
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 06:13 PM |
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Yep, in my opinion, and I have the scars to back up my opinion 
KTM's and Maicos also suck.
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/6/06 at 06:34 PM |
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With all due respect how is that relevent to a BEC install though?
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