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Author: Subject: Locost exterior design
Bob C

posted on 11/2/07 at 11:28 PM Reply With Quote
Gaz - it's got class & I want one!
I hope you can get together with one of the manufacturers to develop this as a body mould to go on a locost chassis - they'd have one customer here already....
Bob
PS did I say I want an open top/soft-top version - no worries with doors then...

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Steve Lovelock

posted on 12/2/07 at 06:15 AM Reply With Quote
Gaz, your university course looks fantastic
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Gaz 1977

posted on 12/2/07 at 05:53 PM Reply With Quote
university locost project

well this is where it is at today.

If i could find a company that would be willing to work with me on this and build it full size i will make you a soft top, Rescued attachment ft 34 feb 12.jpg
Rescued attachment ft 34 feb 12.jpg

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Gaz 1977

posted on 12/2/07 at 06:00 PM Reply With Quote
locost design

and from the side.

thanks again for all the comments.

give it another month and i hope it will start to look a bit tasty.

after using clay over the last few days i have come to the decision that it is the perfect way to make air intakes, even mirrors and nose cones.

Rescued attachment side feb 12.jpg
Rescued attachment side feb 12.jpg

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Bluemoon

posted on 13/2/07 at 02:10 PM Reply With Quote
Hi Gaz,

Looks good, just make sure your effort is not lost.If you digitized the shape you could make a buck using the same method as:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=43112

Even if you don't do it now it will be worth keeping the model!

Where about's is your home town when your not at uni?

Cheers

Dan

[Edited on 13/2/07 by Bluemoon]

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timf

posted on 13/2/07 at 02:56 PM Reply With Quote
with some more work

bat
bat


[Edited on 13/2/07 by timf]

[Edited on 13/2/07 by timf]





A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him."
- Sir Winston S. Churchill, 1952

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Gaz 1977

posted on 13/2/07 at 07:20 PM Reply With Quote
locost exterior design

when the thing is finally finished there is no way i would throw the model away. God knows where i will keep it though.

when i am not at uni i live near Sudbury on the essex/suffolk border. Why?

As for the Batman thing, I don't think it would pass SVA with all the pointy bits!

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Gaz 1977

posted on 14/2/07 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
design update

here we go with the latest progress Rescued attachment feb 14 worm.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 14 worm.jpg

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Gaz 1977

posted on 14/2/07 at 03:53 PM Reply With Quote
locost design

comments please. Rescued attachment feb 14 ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 14 ft 34.jpg

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andyps

posted on 14/2/07 at 07:09 PM Reply With Quote
That does look great. I have a question though - any idea of the aero effect of the "channel" behind the front wheel? It appears that just at the point where most road dirt (and therefore presumably some air) is thrown up from the wheel there is a scoop along the car - would this affect the aerodynamics at all?





Andy

An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less

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Gaz 1977

posted on 14/2/07 at 10:42 PM Reply With Quote
locost design

to be honnest, i am not sure but i don't think it we be a problem as it will be removing trapped air from the engine bay.
It must create less lift then clamshell mudguards?

some people say it is a problem, some say its not.

I have herd rumours that there is a small wind tunnel in the engineering department of the uni. So there must be someone there who can give me an answer. I will try and track someone down to have a look over the model over the next week.

thanks for the comment, i hope we will have an answer soon.

Thanks.

GAZ

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Bob C

posted on 14/2/07 at 11:59 PM Reply With Quote
I'll make a couple of observations -
1) I'm a bit worried about the height of the scuttle & over the front wings (driver's view)
2) the curved 'hole' between front wings & bonnet looks like it would be tough to mould in GRP
3) the waisted in 'side pod' area is a really strong styling feature - sure the aero might not be optimal, but lets face it, it's never gonna be!! It looks like it's been diluted on the clay model compared to some of the drawings..
The height thing is the main worry for me, i'm quite tall & have a cushioned seat in my locost but am very aware of how low I'm sitting in the 7 - most folks' eyes will be lower still
Still way cool though!
Bob

[Edited on 15/2/07 by Bob C]

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sgraber

posted on 15/2/07 at 12:45 AM Reply With Quote
Let me start off by saying that I quite like it. It's unusual in that it has an overriding retro style with an edgy, modern feel to it. It would be hard to make of list of all the things I like because I do like it, so forgive me if I just point out a few petty things that bother me slightly? I know you won't mind....

The rear wheel feels wimpy and I don't know if it's the arch or the bulk of the paneling above the arch. Maybe it needs a beefier tire?

Bob's comment about the front vent is good, but it doesn't mean that it's not insurmountable. It just means that the mould making process is going to get very 'expensive'. FYI I debated some of those internal mould components during my build and decided against them due to cost/complexity issues.

You need to start thinking about glass now, before you finish the clay model. Otherwise you are looking at a project that will be priced out of the range of anyone remotely interested in the car.

my .03 american cents...






Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/

"Quickness through lightness"

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Gaz 1977

posted on 15/2/07 at 09:58 AM Reply With Quote
locost design

hi guys,

I will try and answer some questions.

first bob.
the scuttle is the same height as a book chassis and the top of the roof is the same height as a roll bar, I am sure that there is enough space to fit a seat with rails and height adjustment. (well i hope so)

Oh by the way the height of the roof is 44 inches at the mo.

When i started the clay i built up a MDF and blue foam buck with the same exturnal dimentions as a book chassis. With probes and reference to my scale chassis i am able to judge where key componants are under the clay, for example i know that there is 70mm clearance over the top of the engine block.

The molding of the front could be broken into seperate parts, if a seperate bonnet was used i could achive the effects of the air intakes.

thanks Bob and keep em comming.

Time for Sgraber.

You are completely right about the rear wings and i will do a few changes. I still have some serious mods to do on the rear in the next couple of days so keep looking and commenting,

The glass is a bit of an issue at the moment, not sure what road to go down. I was thinking plastic rear and side and a cut down glass screen for the front.

There is a bit of politics at the Uni at the moment. (different lecturers saying different things) so if anyone has a good answer for the glass issue i can use it as backup.

Thanks again Guys.

Gaz.

PS. If there is anyone in the newcastle area who fancys a look and a coffee feel free to U2U me.

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Rob Palin

posted on 15/2/07 at 10:08 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
to be honnest, i am not sure but i don't think it we be a problem as it will be removing trapped air from the engine bay.
It must create less lift then clamshell mudguards?

some people say it is a problem, some say its not.

I have herd rumours that there is a small wind tunnel in the engineering department of the uni. So there must be someone there who can give me an answer. I will try and track someone down to have a look over the model over the next week.

thanks for the comment, i hope we will have an answer soon.

Thanks.

GAZ



The scallops will have two main and competing effects:

1/ Assisting the escape of the air which would otherwise build up in the wheelarch (louvres on the upper surface of the arch/fender would also help, but they have unpopular practical and styling consequences). This will reduce lift.

2/ They will allow some spillage of flow from the side of the car into the underfloor area. This will increase the pressure there and not help the lift situation (though not generate any additional lift in itself, just reduce the benefit of the low pressure under there). If you are thinking of having any sort of rear diffuser then you might consider putting some sort of 'running board' along the side to effectively extend the plane of the floor of the car out to the full width of the body.


That might not be too much of a problem, however, as generally speaking this sort of car doesn't tend to suffer so much from rear lift as it does from front lift. Typically it is the curved front ends which encourage flow under the front end and into the front wheelarches which is the biggest culprit (the front wheelarches on a 7 are responsible for 70%+ of the front lift). If styling considerations mean that your bumper/fenders are all curved (kind of like a GT40's) then lots of air will be rushing into the wheelarch and using louvres or that scallop to help it get back out will be more important.

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Gaz 1977

posted on 15/2/07 at 10:34 AM Reply With Quote
locost design

thanks Rob.

I like the idea of vents in the top of the arches, that could help with some issues i have with the bonnet styling, I will mock it up and put it on here.

It wont be today as i have the wonderful task of sitting in the house and waiting for a delivery. BUGGER.

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Uphill Racer

posted on 15/2/07 at 08:42 PM Reply With Quote
The scallops will have two main and competing effects:

1/ Assisting the escape of the air which would otherwise build up in the wheelarch (louvres on the upper surface of the arch/fender would also help, but they have unpopular practical and styling consequences). This will reduce lift.

2/ They will allow some spillage of flow from the side of the car into the underfloor area. This will increase the pressure there and not help the lift situation (though not generate any additional lift in itself, just reduce the benefit of the low pressure under there). If you are thinking of having any sort of rear diffuser then you might consider putting some sort of 'running board' along the side to effectively extend the plane of the floor of the car out to the full width of the body.


This may not be the way it works, the scallops could create rolling vortices that actually block the flow of air out of the engine bay, but create an air skirt down the side of the car aiding downforce if a venturi is used. They may also add a large drag factor.

Is the windscreen based an a production unit?
Have you done a mock up of driving position and eye line, as it looks as if eye line is in line with top of windscreen.
Screen pillar is a problem and will produce a blind spot.
As for testing aero properties, fit wool tufts to model,strap it on the roof fo a car and film/ photograph it. (natures wind tunnel)
Looks good in a traditional way.

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Gaz 1977

posted on 16/2/07 at 09:40 AM Reply With Quote
locost design

some images fro the weekend.

raised rear arch

filled side

bottom edge taken out wider Rescued attachment 16 feb 34.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb 34.jpg

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Gaz 1977

posted on 16/2/07 at 09:45 AM Reply With Quote
locost design

as far as the eyeline is concerned i think it is ok. the seats sit lower in the car then you might think.

Imagine the high point of the roof being the top of a roll bar. the view should be no different then a normal locost.

thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 16 feb side.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb side.jpg

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Rob Palin

posted on 16/2/07 at 09:48 AM Reply With Quote
If the outboard edge of the sill is sharp then you will get vortices rolling up along that edge regardless of it's lateral position. With the front of the sill angled inwards, as part of the scallop, it is quite possible that the low pressure at the core of the vortices would act on the underside of the car and enhance downforce - very much like an inverted delta wing.

I 'm not sure how that vortex formation would block flow out of the wheelarch though - isn't it too low and further inboard?. Can you give a bit more detail?

[Edited on 16/2/07 by Rob Palin]

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Gaz 1977

posted on 16/2/07 at 09:53 AM Reply With Quote
locost design

The top of the front screen can always be raised or moved futher into the roof, if you know what i meen.

the screen will be a simple shape (a gradual curve in both directions so i imagine it to be cut from an existing screen.

thanks again for all the help.

GAZ Rescued attachment 16 feb ft.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb ft.jpg

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macnab

posted on 16/2/07 at 11:32 AM Reply With Quote
Hmm, not ugly but I'd do a few changes

1) windscreen min 1/4 longer
2) Reduce front pillar thickness, a lot
3) Include a Diablo cutout to the lower front door window line to improve visibility.
4) Make the bonnet more pointed, looks like a big tongue in the last pic.
5) In one of the drawings the rear area was much smaller and lighter, that I liked a lot the model looks very fat from behind
6) Front lights look to hidden for the SVA, I was wondering where they even were till I saw the front view.
7) The doors are going to be very thick, doubt they will hinge out, gullwings might end up very heavy with such a large lower door. Maclaren butterfly hinges might be the solution.

Oh and I love the sculptured roof, very classy.

Understand I'm not trying to be negative in any way; you're doing very well. Just a few observations based on my personal tastes...






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macnab

posted on 16/2/07 at 12:14 PM Reply With Quote
ok before I get accused of just criticizing here's my suggestion of how the front might look, bairing in mind I've only got ms paintbox on my work machine.

[Edited on 16/2/07 by macnab]






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Tralfaz

posted on 16/2/07 at 02:14 PM Reply With Quote
I think you could raise the roofline slightly and thereby extend the windscreen/sidewindows a bit without detracting from the shape.


Brian

Ps The typical, only a quickie in paint/refinement required disclaimer applies


[img][/img]

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stevebubs

posted on 16/2/07 at 03:32 PM Reply With Quote
http://www.thekitcarworkshop.co.uk/page31.html
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