mark_mcd
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 02:28 PM |
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Toyota 4A-GE Options
Hi,
Basically what I want to know is what is the cheapest way to use a 4a-ge engine in a locost? I have seen RAW Engineering do a kit but it cost over
£300  . Is there any way to do it cheaper or would that be my only option?
Thanks,
Mark
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dmottaway
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 05:03 PM |
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what is this "kit"?
I also want to use the 4age and am curious what this kit is/does.
dave
Somewhere, in Texas, a village is missing its idiot.
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 05:25 PM |
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basically it is a bell housing which mates up a sierra box to the 4age, its a neat set up and comes withh all the bit you need.
i went down the route of using the toyota t50 box, this is the hard way i think. if you want ease of installation and no agro get the raw bellhousing.
goodluck guys, imo the 4age is a great option to go for,
Rob
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 05:39 PM |
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How hard is the Toyota T50 box to come by?
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ghuncha
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 06:34 PM |
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quote:
went down the route of using the toyota t50 box, this is the hard way i think
can you please explain a bit
thanks
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 06:55 PM |
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well the t50 is pretty hard to come by and if you do find one it would probably fetch a fair price. i had to get mine from a scrapyard in london
area.
as for my opinion on t50 being harder to fit, is because it is hydraulic clutch so the fork gets in the way and the engine does not sit as far back as
i would like, to overcome this problem many people have used a concentric clutch cylinder,
also you have to make your own gearbox mount that was not really a problem just had to cut the old one off and modify slightly.
i am glad i used the t50 because:-
*it weighs less (all alloy)
*better ratios(i think)
*and its toyota(haha)
Rob
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 07:04 PM |
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The RAW kit does the job well if you have a type 9 GBX to hand. So the kit cost if offset somewhat by the low cost of the GBX.
Saying that the standard type 9 ratios aren't that great for a kit car so you might end up paying for a gear kit later.
Toyota don't usually make bad gearboxes and are quite often very over engineered. I've used Toyota NA GBX's on tuned forced
induction engines and I never suffered GBX failure!
I've got a rather expensive BGH type 9 in my kit car but I'm still considering a T50 conversion sometime. Nothing wrong with the type 9
I've got except I've read several times that the Toyota box is lighter.
[Edited on 7/2/07 by bimbleuk]
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cs3tcr
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 07:05 PM |
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The T50 is taller than the Sierra box, and is a little wider. But, i did manage to squeeze one into my car, which is a copy of the Lotus frame, not
the book frame.
I recently picked two up here in Vancouver, the first one set me back $300 while the second one was $85. The reason the second one was so cheap was
the fact that the second gear syncro's are weak. I think that the Sierra box is the way to go, i just wish they were over here in Canada.
Cheers,
Rod
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timmy
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 09:09 PM |
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There's also the issue of getting parts for the T-50.
The boxed themselves are common enough here in Oz; apparently it's the rebuilds that cost you because the parts are expensive.
I'm also using a T-50 behind my 4AGE 20v and am fitting a concentric clutch slave from a SAAB instead of using the existing arrangement.
IIRC you might also be able to rig up a linkage arrangement to replace the existing fork/slave arrangement and that should get around the firewall
fouling issues.
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cs3tcr
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 09:23 PM |
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I seem to recall that the Corolla SR5s here in North America had the 4A motor, albeit a 4AC, and ran the same T50 box. But the SR5s had the clutch
fork on the LH side of the bellhousing. This might help those wanting to fit the T50 to a RHD car. Or, you could always offset the motor to the LH
side, as i'm going to do in my current project.
Cheers,
Rod
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mark_mcd
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| posted on 7/2/07 at 09:59 PM |
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so are RAW the only company to offer this solution?
Also how much on average for a 4a-ge these days?
[Edited on 7/2/07 by mark_mcd]
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 8/2/07 at 08:41 PM |
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think raw is the only place to get the bellhouses. as for 4age, i would buy a mot failure corolla gti, they go quite cheap because of the rotten body,
however the engine is probably mint as they are bomb proof.
i scrapped one last month so have a spare engine, and will probably have another to scrap next month so will have another engine and that one will be
up forsale.
rob
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thomas4age
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| posted on 9/2/07 at 07:10 AM |
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Hey all,
I have the Toyota T50 Box in my striker.
It's heaps lighter than a T9 with alloy RAW bellhousing, and shifting is slicker than a fords one.
it's only 8mm wider than a T9, the only thing is that a T9 is getting smaller towards the propend of the box and a t50 is not. it does indeed
fit the striker without any hassle.
if you can find one go for it take to stock toyota clutch, and it all bolts up easily.
the biggest cost I had when I did my x-flow-4age swap was the RAW exhaust system, but I'm vary glad I did at that time.
I had gen1 4age 16v on original ECU and an shortened inlet manifiold in my car and it was at least 2 times quicker than the burton 1.6kent, and did
19km on 1 liter of petrol (54MpG!!!)
brilliant combination, I have everything you need drawing wise to get the engine running just give a shout if you want them
If you can find an Map-sensored engine it gives a little freedom because the stock Airflowmeter is quite big.
best bet is a NON t-vis later GTI one, it has small port head, and higher compression which delivers 25hp more than a series 1 and far beter torque,
if you do buy a T-vis engine and run the stock ecu LEAVE the T-vis IN PLACE it works
grtz Thomas
[Edited on 9/2/07 by thomas4age]
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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RichB
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| posted on 27/4/07 at 11:56 AM |
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Thomas, I don't know whether you have this all sorted now but fensport do a 4age - type9 bellhousing for £215 + vat. I'm not sure of the
other parts included with the Raw one but this might or might not be cheaper.
Rich
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mark_mcd
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| posted on 27/4/07 at 03:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichB
Thomas, I don't know whether you have this all sorted now but fensport do a 4age - type9 bellhousing for £215 + vat. I'm not sure of the
other parts included with the Raw one but this might or might not be cheaper.
Rich
It's really funny you should mention this as I just recently stumbled across it too! Does anyone know what is included over the RAW kit if
anything?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 27/4/07 at 04:31 PM |
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Guys as usual you find RAW buy a lot of their Toyota kit from Fensport!
Fensport's price is for the bell housing only and its gone up from £190+VAT due to the cost of materials.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 01:20 PM |
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Hey Guys
I think we have a misunderstanding here,
I'm using the T50 box and it's veru good I would not want to up/downgrade to a T9.
I was talking about the exhaust system,
the original question was, what's the cheapest way to get 4ag power in my car,
using the stock exmanifold would be far cheaper than using raw's one, but I'm glad I didn't sdo that and, payed a little more to get
RAW's 4-1 exhaust system.
anyway cheapest still is
stock block
stock loom
stock ecu
stock T50
stock 212mm clutch pack
only thing you then need to buy when using a used engine is
timinbelt + idler pulley, Ae86 spigot bearing, 5rib belt, and 3 12v relais + some wire. install it all and Voila!
Oh and an injection fuel pump if it's carbed now, scrappy's mercedes one will do just fine.
cost me a little less then 1000 euro's when I did the conversion on the striker 3 years back.
here's the loom drawing I made back then, I can't upload this in my photoalbum does anyone know why???
grtz Thomas
[Edited on 29/4/07 by thomas4age]
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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mark_mcd
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 06:31 PM |
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so if i use a standard 4a-ge 16v engine + ecu, standard exhaust manifold and use a type 9 gearbox + engine mounts from raw i shouldn't have any
problems getting the lot into an mk indy  . in terms of the bodywork will it all fit in ok? do you think a bonnet scoop will be needed of could i
do without?
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R1 STRIKER
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 10:36 PM |
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Wouldn't of thought you would need a bonnet scoop. There is always the option of a shortened sump if it is that close.
Ben.
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COREdevelopments
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 04:26 PM |
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if you will be using standard plenum chamber it will need to be cut down as it sticks up too high, im using locost body work and i need to use a vent
as my oil cap sticks up a bit, im using twin 40s.
mk use higher bodywork so that shouldnt cause you a problem and may not need a vent.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 3/5/07 at 03:41 PM |
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I have cut and shut my stock 16v manifold so that it's level with the cam covers.
the engine is still standing around the workshop, I could sell you the manifold which fitted my striker.
thing is that if it fit's a striker it'll probably fit anything else aswell strikers are very small.
I also have a shortned sump but that's a bit rough and leaky needs to be welded up properly.
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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