jaylatti
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| posted on 2/7/07 at 10:33 PM |
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rear suspension flaw ?
Ive recently read in a previous post about a flaw in the design of the mk rear suspension. Is this a real problem or just bull as i dont want to
(quote) end up in a ditch . I know the MK has nowhere near the development as a caterham for example ....
[Edited on 2/7/07 by jaylatti]
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jaylatti
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| posted on 2/7/07 at 10:52 PM |
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Hi, so what is the problem with the rear set up ??
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MikeR
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| posted on 2/7/07 at 11:11 PM |
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if you do a search its covered there.
As i recall its something like on full deflection of the suspension it gives toe in / out or something that can upset the car.
most people with the car don't seem to have a problem with it. I believe Martin Keenan has modified some peoples chassis by removing and welding
on new rear brakets.
As i said, do a search, this is all from memory, its late and i don't own a MK.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 2/7/07 at 11:12 PM |
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Hi,
Depends on what you call a flaw, going round a bend very fast you will most likely find your limits before the car finds its limits.
Chris
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PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
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zetec
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 05:52 AM |
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In 6000 miles I've never noticed the problem and I have been known to push it at times. Must be my driving skill... Or the fact I dont know my
arse from my elbow  .
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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Avoneer
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 06:06 AM |
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And yet no one mentions the Avon?
Same scenario as the MK, but more amplified.
Pat...
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Mad Dave
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 06:52 AM |
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The top wishbone bracket is a little high therefore when the suspension compresses from max extension, initially the wheel goes into positive camber
but returns to negative when compressed further. The can be observed of you jack the car up and remove the shock. But, when the car is sat at ride
height the movement of the geometry is such that it will provide negative camber for the remaining travel. Obviously, going round a corner the body
will roll so you will see positive camber while stood track side. This is why some track cars run approx 3 degrees of negative camber to allow for
this. It’s not wise to have so much camber gain that the wheels are more or less 90 degrees to the road surface when cornering.
For road and track use if the car is set up as well as it can be, you should not have a problem.
Just for the record, the new Indy has completely new suspension geometry. I should know, I designed it. I have not really explained in detail to MK
what the differences are, so maybe it’s my fault that when asked they don’t know exactly what to say.
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TimC
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 08:59 AM |
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Personally... I can't really see the point in buying an original Indy any longer. You now have the Haynes Roadster which, lets face it is a
very similar car minus the rear suspension flaws, being made down the road by Mr Indy himself.
Am I wrong?
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 10:09 AM |
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I think I found my cars flaw and reached its limit
Yes but the bar wasn't set very high was it? I don't think you need "testicles" to type what you think on a forum or to
take pictures then post them up after you've got home and call someone's product a pile of poop. I've seen TVR chassis with worse
welds than that and how much did they go for? I'm not slagging or sticking up for anybody but I will say I've been in an old style Indy
and it would take some doing to exceed it's limits under normal road conditions and nothing fell off or broke  I've also bought stuff
from GTS and got it in reasonable time without complaining and bought from MK, MNR, Lolocost and helped build a MAC#1 without any cause for complaint.
I like my opinions, that's why I keep them to myself most of the time.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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TimC
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 10:19 AM |
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I'm not in this for the argument. It was merely an observation - I tend to use my testicles for other activities.
For what it's worth though, having tried to chase Caterhams and even a well set-up Locost through the bends on-track, the flaw is certainly
noticeable and detrimental to progress.
That's not to say that I didn't really like my Indy because I did. On road it was very good fun.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 11:54 AM |
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Mad Dave has explained it perfectly and unless you're racing competitively, any issues with the rear suspension aren't a problem.
Our Indy has never been set-up professionally and to date we haven't noticed any problems in relation to the rear suspension on trackdays.
Then again, maybe it's because we don't drive it hard enough............ 
Phil
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SeaBass
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CaLviNx
I'm going to Donnington kit car show and if anyone wants to discuss any matter with me without anyone thinking I hide behind a forum, I will be
happy to reiterate anything face to face, so please, please u2u me and I will meet anyone who wishes to talk without hiding behind a forum......
So who's going to meet up at Donnington then......
Your coming across as way too aggresive there Mark for a friendly car forum IMHO...
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 12:41 PM |
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What's antsy?
and who's getting it?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Paul G
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 12:48 PM |
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Your coming across as way too aggresive there Mark for a friendly car forum IMHO...
that makes a change.....
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Peteff
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 02:39 PM |
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I don't think you need "testicles" to type what you think on a forum or to take pictures then post them up after you've got home and call someone's product a pile of poop.
This is what I wrote, you read into it what you thought I meant. Something you often point out that others are doing with your posts. I don't
accuse anyone of "brain farting" whatever that is or not having testicles, I don't see the need on a forum. I will not be going to
Donington, I haven't been for the last two years even though it is local for me as I don't like the way Limelight have changed it
from the way it used to be. I hope you enjoy the show.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 05:58 PM |
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Back to the original question, I beleive there is a problem with the original rear suspension geometry but we have never found the limit yet, If you
want to send me your address I will gladly send you a copy of the onboard video of the blade at the last trackday at Aintree (it's too big to
send on the net)
Like Hellfire it's never been professionaly setup just very carefully checked and adjusted (corner weights, bumpsteer etc)
Regards
Tony
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 07:52 PM |
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Bringing this back on topic: supose someone with an old Indy chassis wanted to 'fix' their sus. geometry, what would they need to do?
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ASH3
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 08:51 PM |
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There is nothing to fix, mine is superb and has been from day 1 she was sva'd in 2002 and drives has good as new to this day and behaves both on
the track and road i suggest this post should be deleted cause im gettin cheesed off with it and with some of the unwanted comments now we are all kit
car luvers but some on here are just nit pickers
"I have tried to refrain from commenting but when it comes to meeting at shows face to face to debate such matters then i draw the line. I will
be at Donington but have no desire to meet such folk or welcome them on to our club pitch whoever they maybe"
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DRC INDY 7
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 09:09 PM |
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just for the record mr indy or as we call him martin keenan does not have anything to do with or build the chassis for the haynes roadster anymore
ps why does it bother you i mean you were quick to jump in at the begining of the thread you made your point weeks ago now it just gets boring
[Edited on 7/3/2007 by DRC INDY 7]
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
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snoopy
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| posted on 3/7/07 at 10:13 PM |
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i agree why keep going on about it if the indy isnt perfect then neither are all the indy clones aswell that includes a lot of names as the indy
chassis has been cloned to death by many companies in various countries so there all the same so why not go tell some of them ?
also the indy was born out of a modded locost chassis not computer designed it was originaly a live axle then de dion before becomming the indy and
if it only has one flaw then hasent it done well
perhaps mk should rename there new model to the mk indy and put the de dion axle back on the existing indy model this then cures any rear irs related
problems and would make a superb car as it was originaly like this
 
mk bike 1
.JPG)
[Edited on 3/7/07 by snoopy]
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TimC
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 06:39 AM |
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Snoopy - what you say makes a lot of sense.
Sounds like MK could do with your clarity of thought.... Oooops! (their loss!)
A couple of questions around people's perception of performance:
- To those who say that they encounter no problems on track, doesn't it frustrate when the Caterham Academy car (for example) in front pulls
away in the turns?
- I see that the 4-Age powered Indy performed pretty well in 750MC kits at Pembrey. Does anyone know if he's running a standard rear
set-up?
I don't expect to upset people as I have no axe to grind but I find this an interesting subject.
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Wadders
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 07:41 AM |
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Hi Tim
Trouble is how do you compare one car to another, especially with a different person drivingl? maybe the caterham was set up better or had £1500 worth
of nitrons on, maybe the driver was better etc etc, so many variables.
When i used to do motorbike Trials
a guy would turn up now and again on an ancient Tiger cub, and beat 95% of the field, many running brand new lightweight bikes 30 years newer (this
was 1996)
I'm not saying the flaw's not a problem, and maybe your a good enough driver to appreciate it was holding you back, but i bet for 95% of
the people who have one, its not a problem.
I guess the only way to compare is by testing Top Gear style, same driver, same track.
does anyone know the Stig?
Al.
Originally posted by TimC
A couple of questions around people's perception of performance:
- To those who say that they encounter no problems on track, doesn't it frustrate when the Caterham Academy car (for example) in front pulls
away in the turns?
- I see that the 4-Age powered Indy performed pretty well in 750MC kits at Pembrey. Does anyone know if he's running a standard rear
set-up?
I don't expect to upset people as I have no axe to grind but I find this an interesting subject.
[Edited on 4/7/07 by Wadders]
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TimC
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 09:18 AM |
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Your argument is of course a perfectly logical one. An Academy car is by it's very nature a basic spec Caterham. That said, they are usually
very well set up.
There's no way that I can prove my hypothesis to you but it remains my belief.
I'm going to move on now....
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oliwb
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 07:42 PM |
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This is all fair enough if you've got one already, but what if your a new builder?
Why would you buy something that has a known flaw in it whether you'd push it that far or not. The fact that the matter seems to get swept
under the carpet is alarming. MK seem to be trading on there good reputation (from what I saw at newark). People should be alerted to the
indy's flaws and their lack of development. Its a bit like tiger at the moment they are standing still and being overtaken by the competitors
such as mac1 and mnr. Its an open market and people shouldn't be swayed and deleting the thread thus preventing ppl from learning of mk's
short comings will only serve to support their lack development and wont help anyone in the long run....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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snoopy
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| posted on 4/7/07 at 07:51 PM |
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Why would you buy something that has a known flaw in it whether you'd push it that far or not
people still buy mac 1,s luegos derman motorsports cars and many others all with the same flaw as the indy and mk have developed a new chassis which
is computer designed and perfect dont think this is standing still doing nothing as said the indy is a compromise from a locost chassis if you want
perfection i suggest everyone thinking of building or ordering orders the new chassis
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