thommy2
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 posted on 25/8/03 at 07:20 AM |
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BMW-bases chassis
Hi there,
Does anyone have experience in building a locost with BMW parts, such as uprights, engine, diff, etc. I would like to make an in dependable rear
suspension by using the BMW parts, but not use the whole axel because it is way too heavy.
I also want to use the big six engine, a 2.8 from a 528i (e28). The space in the normal frame is just not enough to fit the engine.
So my question is: Does anyone have pictures, drawings, etc. about fitting a big six, and the use of other BMW parts.
Thom Hahne
Netherlands
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 25/8/03 at 08:03 AM |
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And up pops the hippy.
We're in the early stages of using a 1986 e28 M535i.... E30 3.5 litre engine.
Using the straight six should be possible (it better be or we're screwed).
As for the running gear I couldn't tell you for definite as we haven't as yet removed it from the donor. With luck we shall be utilising
it all somehow or other.
For a potential chassis template to graft your ideas on to why don't you take a look at http://fordsix.com/locost/Collins.pdf
It's a chassis designed for a straight six Ford unit, but the basic dimensions shouldn't be drastically out for the 2.8 BMW motor.
Maybe not a lot of help to you, but for now I hope it's a good start to help you on your way.
Regards.
Rich. 
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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thommy2
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| posted on 25/8/03 at 12:11 PM |
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OK, thanks.
Let me know if you notice that some parts don't fit, or any solutions you got.
Your car is very similar to ours, so we might help each other. We have stripped down the whole car, but there are some problems coming up:
Engine height, maybe we have to use dry sump.
Front and rear uprights/spindles, difficult to attach wishbones
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thommy2
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| posted on 25/8/03 at 12:16 PM |
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OK, thanks.
Let me know if you notice that some parts don't fit, or any solutions you got.
Your car is very similar to ours, so we might help each other. We have stripped down the whole car, but there are some problems coming up:
Engine height, maybe we have to use dry sump.
Front and rear uprights/spindles, difficult to attach wishbones
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Tigers
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 11:51 AM |
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Hi!
So how far are you guys?
I'm using my good old 325i e30 m20 as a donor. And i'm still in design (autoCAD) - donor stripping phase.
I have been thinking a lot about suspension... One thing is clear - i'm gonna build IRS, couse live axel seems to be a bit - not very
serious.
It's not going to bee to simple to attach A-arms to hubs. But i've done some research in BMW ETK, and found out that hubs from e36
(coupe/sedan) woud be good fit for locost, althoug it's addittional costs.
Maybe you have some other ideas?
Tigers
PS. Sorry for my english 
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JoelP
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigers
I have been thinking a lot about suspension... One thing is clear - i'm gonna build IRS, couse live axel seems to be a bit - not very
serious.
Tigers
PS. Sorry for my english
Dont get people started on the IRS/live debate again! Many people would/have argued that a live axle is so much easier to fit and set up than IRS
that it outweighs the benefit of flexibility that an IRS system has.
And then of course a DeDion setup comes up, and all the pros and cons get repeated! Check out some of the threads on this is you are not sure about
the spring set up, if you really want to make IRS and hubs then i wish you good luck, and lots of spare time!
JoelP
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Tigers
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| posted on 12/9/03 at 01:48 PM |
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Ok, i'm sorry if i hurt somebody's feelings
I agree that live axel is much more easyer to build.
The topis is not about which suspension is better (athough we now for sure wich one is ).
I just wanted to know other opinion on how to build IRS from BMW parts.
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tadltd
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 posted on 14/9/03 at 12:21 AM |
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I can supply bespoke castings that will accept BMW E36, 5 stud hubs + bearings. They have been designed specifically for double wishbone suspension
(on the Coram LMP).
They are cast from LM25 aluminium and are designed to accept Wilwood 4-pot dynalite (billet or drop forged) calipers (as supplied by Rally Design),
and standard BMW vented discs.
Please U2U me for prices, if interested.
Steve.
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tadltd
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 posted on 15/9/03 at 09:46 PM |
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I must warn that the cost of the uprights kinda goes against the grain of the 'Locost' (i.e. low cost) ethos...
...in terms of cost you should think more along the lines of Ultima... :-s
Steve.
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ChrisW
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| posted on 16/9/03 at 11:32 AM |
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I know Luego have fitted an E30 M3 engine into the Viento chassis but I believe it used the Sierra rear end. Might I suggest you give them a call?
On a personal note, if it were me I would be sourcing the Sierra rear end and just taking the engine and box from the BMW. Save yourself a lot of
hassle!
Chris
My gaff my rules
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Noodle
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| posted on 16/9/03 at 12:38 PM |
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E30 M3 was just a four cylinder though. It's the straight sixes that'll cause the bother.
Cheers,
Neil.
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twentyover
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 09:00 AM |
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Might want to take a look at fordsix.com. From the homepage go to News and hit the locost roadster button.
Not a BMW 6, but a crossbreed of the short stroke Ford 6 w/ an Aussie crossflow head from a lonstroke Ford 250 ci engine.
Frame, a long nose locost, was penned by Mcsoreley. If you ask nice you can get a copy of the frame details to accomodate a 6 cylinder.
Points i don't personally like (but nothing wrong with them) is it uses a Ford SN-95 as basis for the front.
Might be worth a look
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Tigers
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 11:34 AM |
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Thanks for ideas!
I have drawn McSorley7+442 chasis in AutoCAD (can e-mail, if somebody intrested), and it seems OK for engine lenght. As I see, the problem coud be
engine height. If i put it that sump is 1 inch below spaceframe, engine is almost 400 mm abow upper frame rail (15 inches). So, I'm thinking
with dry sump I could lower it for about 100mm.
How high is the hood (measuring from upper rails) with standart nose cone?
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 02:21 PM |
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The design on Fordsix.com is a collaboration with Jim McSorley and was actually modified from the McSorley plan (the one on the site) to increase
height a fraction.
An e-mail to Mustangsix from this forum (the car builder) might prove useful....
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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timf
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| posted on 17/9/03 at 02:40 PM |
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or even try the link he gave last time http://fordsix.com/locost/Collins.pdf
for some rough sizing
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tadltd
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 10:01 AM |
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BMW/Ford Granada compatible uprights
Just posted some pic's into the photo archive of the uprights I can supply.
These are compatible with BMW 3-series (maybe even 5-series) and Ford Granada hubs & bearings.
The ones shown are cast in aluminium LM25 (but can also be cast in magnesium), and can be supplied fully CNC machined for your application. The brake
mounting lugs are designed to accept Wilwood 6 & 4 pot calipers on the front, and 4 pot calipers on the rear.
Steve. 
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 11:31 AM |
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That is one hell of a nice upright. almost makes me wish i was a BM nutter...!
How much are you charging for those?
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 01:38 PM |
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Come on then, tell all...
How much?
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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tadltd
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| posted on 20/9/03 at 06:48 PM |
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Make sure you're sitting down for this...
£1200 for a set (inc VAT & all CNC machining) - Locost subscribers special offer.
Steve.
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MustangSix
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| posted on 21/9/03 at 01:41 AM |
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I'd be happy to share any details on my car. It is a bit larger than the ones most of you are building, but I had a garage full of old Mustang
parts that needed to be used, so it's wider, longer, and taller than the book car.
The SN95 spindles were another availability choice, as were the forged aluminum lower arms from a Corvette. I had them, so I used them. The spindles
gives me whopping big brakes, and they match the SN95 discs I'm using at the rear. Old, dead Mustangs are very common here, but Sierras and
Escorts are not.
The front suspension setup is much like a Factory Five Cobra and not like a Locost at all. But the geometry is near perfect and is fully adjustable
for caster, camber, toe, and even wheelbase.
The engine bay could have been shortened by six or seven inches and still would have fit this engine. A BMW six would be no problem at all, although
the Bimmer leans in the wrong direction to accomodate right hand drive. Just a detail to work around.
I admit that this thing will probably not scoot around cones as well as a much smaller car will. But I don't race, so I don't care. It
will still be lighter, faster, and more nimble than anything around here.
Just for a bit of an idea on the scale, those are 16" wheels and the young man sitting in the car is my son, who is 6'2" tall.
[Edited on 21/9/03 by MustangSix]
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thommy2
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| posted on 29/9/03 at 03:08 PM |
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Tigers,
Hey there,
Can you send me the cad-file you got, I am designing a chassis my self, based on a 6-series BMW.
I can help you out with other problems, so we can duplicate each design.
Mail me at Hahne@xs4all.nl
Thom
The Netherlands
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