Confused
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:08 PM |
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Probably going to regret this... de-dion questions
Hi all,
I've been doing some thinking and searching about the rear suspension for my Anglia.
I've seen some IRS vs live axle vs de-dion threads, but I don't really want it to be one of those! 
I've currently got an Escort live axle on there, but I'm not sure that it's going to take the power I'm going to be putting
through it (~250bhp from a Nissan 200SX 1.8 turbo lump)
I've got the full IRS from the 200SX - but it's way to wide, and very heavy. If I shorten the driveshafts, and cut out the middle to keep
the IRS bits, the angles the driveshaft CV joints will go through would be huge.
Would I be right in saying that a de-dion is basically using a seperate diff, driveshafts, and hubs, but that they're mounted together, and all
move together, without introducing angle changes into the CV joints (like it does with IRS)
If I understand that correctly, would it be best for me to use the 200SX diff, shorten the driveshafts, and mod the hubs, and I won't have CV
joint angle issues.
If I'm wrong, then I'll appreciate being corrected
Cheers!
Garry
[Edited on 1/11/07 by Confused]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:19 PM |
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In a de dion, the diff is fixed solidly to the chassis and the hubs move up and down.
as the hubs are connected from side to side with the de dion tube it acts like a live axle as there is no camber change as the axle moves up and down,
as there would often be with independent supspension.
HTH
Cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Confused
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:25 PM |
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Thanks, Mark.
Most of the discussions I found via searching earlier had the discussion continuing in a manor that's OK if you know how each type actually
works
I was hoping that would get round my issue of the 200SX having a wide diff, requiring me to have short driveshafts (as the Anglia is a good 10"
narrower than the 200SX), but obviously not.
I'll have to go back to the drawing board and find something with a strong, narrow diff so I can have longer driveshafts which won't
introduce such sharp angles in the CV joints.
Thanks.
Garry
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JAG
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:37 PM |
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I think the Escort axle will be fine with the power output you have. It's torque that generally kills transmission components.
Even if the engine can produce huge torque (as turbo's do sometimes) then the axle will NOT see it all as the rear wheels will probably spin -
thereby limiting the total torque transmitted. It's all a factor of the finished cars weight and the tyres you will use.
How heavy will the finished car be?
what kind of tyres do you intend to use?
Will the car be street legal?
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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Bob C
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:39 PM |
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Don't be worrying too much about CV joint angles - so long as they don't bind they'll be fine - they are used at steering type
angles at the front!
Bob
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nick205
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:39 PM |
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For the money and time you would spend on a De Dion or IRS set-up and the potential problems you highlight, you might be better looking at either
strngthening the live axle you have or finding a stronger base live axle to work with.
Also worth bearing in mind that the Anglia will be substantially lighter than the 200SX was and therefore won't place so much strain on the
transmission and drivetrain so you might get away with the stndard axle you already have anyway.
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Confused
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 01:44 PM |
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JAG,
Finished car will be, at a guess, around 900kg (that's how much my dad's weighs, and he's got Subaru 4wd running gear)
Yeah it will be street legal, so wheels/tyres will be street legal tyres. I'm aiming to keep it looking quite "stock/period" from
the outside, without intentions of what's under the bonnet. I'm just worried because of my dad telling me tales of blowing diff's in
his 1500GT engine'd Anglia when he was younger!
Bob C,
The driveshafts are very short anyway on the 200SX (the rear diff is v wide!) and I'll need ~4" from each one...!
nick205,
The issue is the width of the car - I don't want bubble arches (see point above of making it look standard), so that rules out options like the
Capri etc. Even the Escort axle is a little wider than I'd like! (But it was on there when I got it as a partially started project)
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mookaloid
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 02:10 PM |
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I don't think a salisbury axle off a scimitar is so wide - you won't break one of those! or you could have it narrowed if it is too
wide.
It also comes with a Watts linkage (a good thing).
Cheers
mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 03:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JAG
I think the Escort axle will be fine with the power output you have. It's torque that generally kills transmission components.
Even if the engine can produce huge torque (as turbo's do sometimes) then the axle will NOT see it all as the rear wheels will probably spin -
thereby limiting the total torque transmitted. It's all a factor of the finished cars weight and the tyres you will use.
How heavy will the finished car be?
what kind of tyres do you intend to use?
Will the car be street legal?
Err years ago I had a big valve Lotus Cortina that used to lunch diffs with alarming regularity. It was shod with 165/13 Pirelli
Cinturatos!...remember them? 
[Edited on 1/11/07 by Fatgadget]
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procomp
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 03:57 PM |
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Hi for the application you are looking at the escort english axle is on the verry edge of it's capability with it's strenght. It will do
250 hp in a light weight say 500kg kitcar but 900kg is pushing it.
If you are wanting to stay with the live axle and ford setup what you are looking for is the BABY ATLAS. This the same width as the english but is the
same as the larger ATLAS. This setup is to be found on just about any seriously used escort rally car . Here is a link to a guy on the WSCC forum
doing a darn fine job of building an escort that has used this setup and has quite a few pictures of the axle and asosiated parts.
ESCORT LINK.
HTH cheers Matt
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 1/11/07 at 04:28 PM |
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the volvo axle is now becoming more common in rally cars , using FWD hubs to make them fully floating etc .
theres also an IRS version , a std locker being available in most of them .
unfortunate thing is having to redrill the hubs for 4 x 108 .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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