tegwin
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| posted on 5/1/08 at 11:35 PM |
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Fighting with OEM engine management and security!
Here is the dilema..
Im looking at getting an engine that will just "work" without huge spendings and complexity...
My plan was to buy a complete VW passat 1.8t or an Audi A4 1.8T and then strip off all of the parts that I need to keep the existing ECU and security
system happy so I can just drop the engine into the new chassis and away I go using OEM throttle body and ecu...perhaps upgrade at a later date...
(Im assuming that the ECU will be tied into the imobiliser, key and door locks etc)
unfortunately getting hold of a written off car is very hard and a road legal high milage example is expensive (Circa £1500-2000)
So this brings me to plan B...
How hard would it be, to retrofit an alternative ECU to the engine that doesnt care about the car imobiliser etc?
Would I end up having to fit throttle bodies and various new sensors on the engine etc as well as new turbo actuators to make it compatible with a
generic ECU?
If I bought the basic engine block with alternator, turbo, fuel system etc, how much time and money would I end up having to invest...
I guess what im trying to work out is: Which makes more sence... High spendature to buy complete car with complete electronics, or low spendature on
just engine followed by high spendature on aftermarket ecu Tbs etc...
[Edited on 5/1/08 by tegwin]
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Agriv8
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| posted on 5/1/08 at 11:48 PM |
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would think Vems will do it out of the box.
Its german and I am sure somone will have it working.
An email to Bob would likly answer your questions ( and give you a guide preice) he can be found on here www.vems.co.uk
regards
agriv8
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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onzarob
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| posted on 5/1/08 at 11:53 PM |
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I can't help you with the second half, but the ecu on VW/Audi doesn't have the Immobiliser in it. Its in the Instrument cluster. so if you
used the cluster and the ecu you should be able to move forward. They need to be matched by using a login code for the instrument part. You can use
Vag-commander software to do this along with Vag-com software
HTH
Rob
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oadamo
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 12:20 AM |
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the one i had was drive by wire.
adam
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tegwin
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 12:21 AM |
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 didnt think of that...It most proberably is DBW...my polo of the same age most deffinately is... BOLLOCKS!
Looks like its going to be very complicated to use the OEM ECU!
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paddler20
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 12:22 AM |
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You should be able to run the standard engine on an aftermarket ECU, emerald ect. So long as the ECU can read your standard sensors, you can map from
them, throttle bodies just mean you get a better induction noise and more potential bhp, for my money run it on an aftermarket ECU on standard
injection, then upgrade the hardware and remap it
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oadamo
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 12:27 AM |
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just run a fiesta turbo ecu. dirt cheap and loads of upgrades.and can be mapped
adam
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caber
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 12:33 AM |
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Throw away al electronics and go for bike carbs and a spark only system like megajolt.
Caber
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Werner Van Loock
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 09:45 AM |
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Take a look here:
Alphax kitcars
They also have a kit to mate it to a MT75 box.
[Edited on 6/1/08 by Werner Van Loock]
http://www.clubstylus.be
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 10:10 AM |
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Hi,
Roger from the dutch kitcar club has this enine fitted and running on megasquirt. have a look here
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lsdweb
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 11:14 AM |
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Emerald can now run on existing sensors.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 01:21 PM |
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Westfield use the 1.8T lump in the XTR4. I'm sure their pricelist will give away how they do it.
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blueshift
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| posted on 6/1/08 at 01:37 PM |
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Could you not mod a drive-by-wire engine to be ye olde manual throttle? just find a suitable throttle and ecu to suit your sensors..
drive-by-wire is nice though, especially with turbos. Can get rid of a lot of turbo lag effects and improve efficiency, if set up right.
Or produce an undrivable pile of arse like the Astra VXR if set up by a Max Power reader, as apparently it was.
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 7/1/08 at 09:48 PM |
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Older 1.8T engines have a cable throttle, go for one of them. I wouldn't even start to consider trying to engineer a DBW system if you
aren't absolutely positively 100% certain you know what you are doing, and if you were you probably wouldn't be asking questions on
t'internet 
Have a looky on some VW forums (e.g. clubgti and edition38) for people who have fitted them into older VW's, they'll have had to overcome
mostly the same problems you will.
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onzarob
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| posted on 7/1/08 at 09:59 PM |
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Read this guys build, Audi V8 into Lotus Elite. He used a VEMS ECU.
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9648&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50
Thing to note he is an Electronics engineer 
http://www.vems.hu/index.html
[Edited on 7-1-2008 by onzarob]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/1/08 at 10:37 PM |
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This does make me laugh!! Of course you can run it with another ECU, you just need to calibrate all the sensors in to the ecu, but they are pretty
common and there aren't actually that many needed.
Any ECU on the planet can run a turbo engine given a crank sensor (inductive or hall effect) cam sensor if you want to go sequential injection
(usually hall effect) MAP sensor, water temp thermistor and air temp thermistor, plus a throttle position pot.
On my first "proper" car build a while back in 1995 I ran a std vauxhall XE 16v engine on its std inlet, std throttle body etc etc, just
pulled off the airflow meter, lambda sensor, MAP sensor etc etc and binned the |Motronic ecu and replaced it with an MBE 913v3 (quite good at the
time) which looked at the std bosch throttle pot on the std throttle spindle, the std bosch crank sensor (inductive) and the water and air temp
sensors, job done.
Re. the fly by wire throttle, bin it and just bolt on a cable throttle body from the older engine.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 7/1/08 at 10:42 PM |
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PS thing to note, buy a decent ECU not one that relies on "DIY" to a large extent!!
You may pay the extra couple of hundred quid but you get somebody on the end of the phone that actually knows what an engine is and can explain things
to you rather than baffle you with techno babble.
I would, currently, favour DTA and Emerald, DTA being slightly more expensive, but more flexible, Emerald "less professional" but have a
rolling road, dyno and a man that can drive them and map virtually in his sleep.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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